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This voice in my head was just like, Sarah, the attachments that still exist in the podcast in this moment are more like egoic attachments beefing me up, telling me I’m good at something versus what my soul craves and desires, which is spaciousness and truly living life.
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Kelli: Sarah Small, so good to be with you.
Sarah: Thank you so much for saying yes to doing this with me. I’m already going to start crying.
Kelli: Yeah. I know.
Sarah: Oh my God. I was feeling into this really deeply and I just felt like I trust you so much to guide this conversation and to be here with me and to talk about all the things today. So thank you for saying yes and just being here to support me in this ending of a chapter.
Kelli: Mm-hmm. It’s been so interesting getting to know you over the last few years. And so much of that has been because of the podcast. And so, I’m so grateful that you have had your show, that I had mine, that we’ve been able to work together. But as a fellow podcaster, I know that our shows are such a reflection of our evolution as women and as people, because I know guys go through the same thing as well. And you have consistently shown up in your work to continue to become. And it’s so amazing to witness that in you and watch your experience unfold. And the thing that really sticks out to me so much about you is the way you continue to show up for others and teach through your experience. And you can talk about autoimmune, you can talk about death. You talk about motherhood, entrepreneurship, spirituality.
I mean, you truly, across the board, have continued to show up and say, I may not have all the answers, but this is what I’m going through and I really want to help people. And you are such an incredible guide for so many people. So I want to go back to the beginning to a young, unmarried, not-a-mom-yet Sarah Small and when you started the show and what you felt called to and pulled to back then that then created everything that is today.
Sarah: Yeah. The show started out with a different name. It was called “Healing Uncensored.” And that word uncensored has carried through this entire journey. And I think that was what was the core of starting the show in the first place, was craving more uncensored conversations at that time around health, around healing, around chronic illness, and autoimmune disease. And one of my first episodes was literally a step-by-step tutorial on how to do a coffee enema so…
Kelli: Did you do it from the bathroom floor with the tube in your ass or…?
Sarah: I should have. I really should have. There’d have been too many wires and tubes and all that if I tried to set that up. But at the time, that was one of my highest downloaded episodes. And I wanted to create community and be able to have these amazing conversations. Like you know, there’s so many conversations that open up to us as podcasters that wouldn’t necessarily present themselves if we didn’t have a show. We’ll have a total of 212 episodes at the end of all this. And so many of those have been interviews and it’s just been so amazing to connect with so many different people and to have conversations that I may not have had otherwise. And then also to have the opportunity to press record on my end and just speak. I think that I healed my own voice, my own throat chakra so much in this process.
And I, full transparency, haven’t pressed play on my first episode in a really long time and I don’t think I want to. But I think that if I did, I would sit there and go, who is that girl? because I have evolved so much. That was four years ago. And like you said, Kelli, I was not a mother yet, I was not married yet, I wasn’t a homeowner yet. There was just so many things that were going on in my life then that are just so different now.
Kelli: Mm. I’m so curious what you feel like the podcast specifically helped you learn about yourself?
Sarah: I think I could answer that in so many ways, but the first thing that came to my mind is that I’m capable and I’m enough. And it goes back to what we talked about in our call. I can trust myself. I can really fucking trust Sarah Small. I trust her and she knows enough and she’s good enough and she always does have something to say. I think an old version of me thought that, well, I don’t have anything to say about that, or I don’t know enough so I shouldn’t say anything about that. And in my experience of being in these conversations on the show, I’ve realized that really, I can relate to anybody. I really can. And that allows me to, yeah, always be able to be part of the conversation, to have a seat at the table. And I think younger me questioned whether I deserved a seat at the table, whether I should have a seat at the table, whether I knew enough to have a seat at the table. And now there’s just no question that I get to have a seat at the table.
Kelli: Mm. What do you think…? The conversations; I mean, you really set the stage for having extremely vulnerable, honest, raw conversations about a lot of really personal things in your life, as well as a lot of really personal things in the lives of your guests.
Kelli: And I’m sure that so many of your listeners and your community resonated in their own raw way. They saw themselves through you. And whether it’s losing a baby or dealing with the death of family, we all have some sort of connection to things like that. And so, what do you feel opened up inside of you and your guests and your community in those conversations that maybe were those untapped moments that people had yet to embark upon before?
Sarah: Yeah. I think a lot of that was shown to me or taught to me through the way that people came into my DMs after listening to an episode. And especially when I did some solo episodes that were extremely vulnerable and a little scary to press record on and yet I just knew that I wasn’t the only person who had been through this or would go through this, or somebody who had a friend who just had a miscarriage and they could send that episode on. And a lot of the DMs were after talking about miscarriage really openly, honestly; talking about abortion, talking about my birth story, all of it. And then I recorded an episode after the death of my brother, Joe. So I started the podcast after Jordan had already passed so he was part of my healing journey in the beginning of the show.
But then I recorded an episode about the death of my brother, Joe. And I didn’t have all the information around his death at that moment, I just knew that I had emotion around his death. So I didn’t have all the information, but I had emotion. And it was really healing to be able to share that emotion in community, knowing that other people have lost loved ones, whether it was their brother or not, and specifically to addiction and to overdose and to accidental overdose. And so interesting because now, in two weeks, we’re actually going to be going to…I just got my subpoena…we’re going to a jury trial around his death. And I have a lot more information now than I did when I recorded that episode about his death. And so, there’s been parts that I haven’t shared with the community and yet, in the moment, I really do share all of me.
And I know you talked a little bit about this, ending your show, and there’s, I don’t want to say it takes a toll on you, but I guess I’m struggling to find the words. And that’s the whole part of this right now is I’m really struggling to find words for a lot of things in my life so it makes it really hard to record podcast episodes. But that verbal processing, that processing with community is so healing in some sense and it’s really fucking vulnerable. And now I have my daughter who’s part of what’s going on, a huge part of what’s going on in my day-to-day day and I’m like, do I really want to be processing everything that she’s going through too on a public stage? And I don’t know if the answer is yes. So it feels good to bring some of my life back into just my sacred little unit and not have it all out there.
And there is such a duality because I can also honestly say that recording that dark-night-of-the-soul episode after Joe’s passing was medicine for my soul. And this is where I feel like we get permission to change our mind, or to feel this way today and that way tomorrow, and to have phases and seasons of life. Because when you and I first chatted, Kelli, I said I feel like I just want a sabbatical. I don’t want to quit podcasting, but I just need space. And that’s really where I’m at right now. Because a lot of the words aren’t coming to me and there’s so much that’s shifted in my life after becoming a mother that I’m just sifting through. And I want to protect my baby in this process. I want to protect the sacredness of our family unit in this process and Andrew included in that. And I’m on this mission to seek deeper truth.
Kelli: Mm. I have full-body chills. It’s so good. I mean, you know this, I’m having a very similar experience with the whole words thing. I’m like, what are words?
Kelli: Because after processing out loud for so long in front of thousands of people just like you, I’ve gotten to a point where I’m like, but is it about the words? Because to me right now, it’s such a felt sense of experience. It’s a feeling. I can’t put things into words. And I also feel that this time that you’re in is this void where it’s not necessarily about words, it’s not necessarily about needing to put words to something or needing to understand something or needing to have reason behind it. It’s this felt experience where, well, this feels like something I can’t explain, and that’s what it is. And it’s uncomfortable because you’re right, it’s hard to sit in front of a mic and try and teach or share when you’re like, I just don’t know how to translate this, but I do feel like it’s not meant to be translated this time through words.
I really feel there is a new way of being, which is really living by example and really living the energy and sharing that energy with people and not needing to tell them something. And I think that’s really where you are right now, especially as a mother, is leaning into how can I truly embody the energy of whatever I’m feeling without the obligation of explaining myself?
Sarah: Yeah. It’s so exhausting. I’m exhausted of trying to explain all the nuances of what I feel inside because I am a very intricate, complex being who has so many different feelings, especially as a highly sensitive empath. And honestly, I’m really fucking bored of the pitches I’m getting in my email and the conversations that I’m being invited into. I’m like, no, that does not sound fun to me. That does not sound mentally stimulating to me. And that made me step back and go, okay. So, I mean, I can take ownership also for who I allow into the space to have conversation with or not. And I’m very picky about who I do allow into this space because I want to have interesting, thought-provoking conversations. I don’t want to have the same conversation over and over again. My time and my energy is more sacred than ever as a mother. And I’m just not interested in a lot of the things that I maybe in the past would have been interested in, and now I’m just not.
So this is this combo of being bored by a lot of the conversation, and like you said, the words are hard to find at this moment. And a lot of it is focusing on truly being the embodiment of an energy and living my life by example. And when I look at the way that I’m utilizing my time right now, it’s just not the best use of my time to be producing, recording, going through reviews of the podcast right now. And that was a really hard truth to come up against, to brush up against and sit there and go, oof. Like, ahh, I’m so attached to this thing that is the podcast because it has certain numbers attached to it, it produces some income, it’s highly rated, it is a way for people to connect to me and find out more about my paid programs and offers. And so, there’s an attachment there. And at the same time, this voice in my head was just like, Sarah, the attachments that still exist in the podcast in this moment are more like egoic attachments. They’re beefing me up and telling me I’m good at something versus what my soul craves and desires, which is spaciousness and truly living life.
Emersyn and I went to the park yesterday and I put her in the swing. It’s the second time she’s ever been in a swing and she fucking loves it. She just kicks her legs all happy and she does this scrunchy-face smile, and it’s so fucking cute and it’s so adorable. And I just watch her in awe. She’s so beautiful and not just because of the way she looks. She’s so beautiful in her energy, in her essence of exploring the world and trying things for the first or second time and just being present for them and being joyful in those moments. And I’m learning so much about life from her and through the lens in which she sees our existence and it’s just reminding me to go out and to live and to… It’s not that these conversations aren’t important on the podcast, because they are, but I’m in a position as a parent who’s parenting alone that I have to make hard decisions. And Glennon Doyle’s voice pops into my head around we can do hard things. And my hard thing is saying no to the podcast right now. And I also know that in that, I’m opening up space for more life; more life to be lived. So gosh, there’s just so much.
Kelli: Yeah. Well, and what I’m hearing too, and something that I can also say I’ve experienced is working through the need to be needed and the martyrdom that often can come in personal development podcasts where it’s like, oh, but my community needs me because I changed their life and they need me to do this and I have to show up like this. And when I started to realize that they would be fine without me and that it’s not about me, I was like, oh, well I feel a lot less pressure. Why was I putting so much pressure on myself? And you just have that ego conversation with yourself and you have to be really fucking honest. Why am I doing this? Well, if you’re doing it because you feel like these people need you and that you’re that special and important, we need to have a conversation.
And I think we all get in and out of that trap over time. And it’s not that we’re bad people. You know, I’m not criticizing anyone. I think it’s just a natural part of being a human and it’s a desire, especially for people who are sensitive and who are helpers, that we want to help people. But I also think that that’s where we limit ourselves and we limit our community by feeling like we have to be the one. We’re the one that’s helping, we’re the one that’s facilitating. And you get in a co-dependent relationship with your listeners. And what I realized, which was painful at first, I didn’t have my show anymore and no one said shit to me. And I was like, the fuck! Where are all the messages telling me how much you miss me? And it was like, yeah, no, they don’t miss you. You’re not on Instagram, you don’t have a podcast, and no one fucking gives a shit. And that’s probably pretty harsh. People care, right?
And at the same point, everyone’s living their lives and everyone gets to live their best life however that feels. And I think it’s just funny how we convince ourselves we can’t stop doing a thing because of XYZ. And it’s like, well, if you give yourself permission and you give your audience permission, everyone gets to move in the way that they’re meant to move.
Sarah: Mm-hmm. That’s so challenging to brush up against in that moment though, where the messages aren’t flooding in anymore and you’re like, wait a second. Did it even matter? Does it even fucking matter? And I think the answer is yes and no, right? No, and yes, people still love and care about you, but there’s not this open invitation to be in your energy all the time anymore. And that’s actually what I am craving is that I don’t have this open invitation to be in exchange with my energy into this circulation with my energy all the time. And instead, I get to preserve it and protect it more than I have in the past four to six years, really, since I started my business. And that was the start of me telling a lot of my story and four years now of podcasting as an outlet to share my story.
And there’s something that just came up for me as you were speaking Kelli, around the word uncensored. And there are parts of me that are truly uncensored. And I’m uncensored in the podcast, I’m uncensored in conversations on the podcast, I’m uncensored in my social media. And if I’m being really honest, there’s a point, and I don’t have words to describe necessarily the point, but there’s a point at which I stop being uncensored. And I think what I’m being invited into right now is to… Another way for me to say uncensored is to be on this radical truth-telling journey. And that’s what’s been coming up for me is that I’m taking what I’ve learned through the podcast and become so comfortable with when I have a microphone in front of my face and headphones on and know I’m being recorded. And the way that I can show up so uncensored in that moment, I want to carry into conversations with my family members and conversations with my husband and just rest of my life. And I don’t always do that. I don’t. I don’t always do that. I will hold back in challenging conversations, especially with family.
And here I am, moved from Colorado to Michigan, and it’s gray as fuck here. It’s so gray. So I miss Colorado so much, but at the same time, I know that this is where we’re meant to be in this phase of life. I have a feeling we might make it back out to Colorado, but we’re here for now. And being here means that I’m the closest I’ve vicinity, geographically been to my family in 10 years. And so, I’m seeing family a lot more and I’m so grateful for that. And Emersyn gets to grow up with her grandparents around and I get extra support from them, and at the same time, there’s a lot of family dynamics. And so, I’m really seeing this opportunity to go on this radical truth-telling journey with myself, where I’m honest with how I feel in these relationships or what I’m thinking in that moment, and then discern what actually gets to be said out loud, but first and foremost, just within myself.
And that feels like part of the next evolution of the podcast is taking it outside of the microphone and the headphones and the social media and living it bigger. It’s not that I wasn’t living it at all, but I think living it even more deep, bigger in my life in a way that feels really liberating. Because I have also learned about myself that I thrive in spaces that are clear communication. And my family is not that. They are the opposite of clear communication. I say this as my mom’s literally in the room underneath me with my daughter right now. But she knows it too, it’s not a secret. We don’t clearly communicate in this family and so, I’m just ready to take everything I’ve learned and apply it in bigger and deeper ways.
Kelli: Mm-hmm. It’s funny, when I came out on my podcast about being bisexual, it was such a liberating thing. And I’m like, oh my God, I’m telling thousands of people about this thing that has felt so scary and shameful and all this stuff. I mean, my mom’s passed away since, but I still haven’t told my dad. I’ve told thousands of strangers one of the deepest, most painful, scary things ever and I still can’t get the balls to tell my own dad, which I guarantee you, he knows because I’m pretty sure he probably listens to my show still and just doesn’t say anything. But isn’t that interesting? We’re so open, we’re also hiding at the same time. It’s this really interesting duality.
Sarah: You’re so right. It is. We’re so open, yet we’re still hiding. And I guess I’m just so curious what would it actually look like to live not hiding anywhere anymore? And again, I think Emersyn is such a conduit of that for me because I see her in her pureness. She can’t hide any emotions, right? When she’s angry, girl’s pissed. When she wants to cuddle, you can’t stop her. Your heart’s just like let’s cuddle. But I want more of that. I truly desire a life that is…I don’t think uncensored’s the right word. I think it’s a different word. It’s just untethered, un-I don’t know, un-something else, but on the other side of that is feeling whole and feeling like I’m living in integrity with my truth.
And I think as empaths too, just speaking to especially the listeners of my show, I think that we tend to mask and chameleon so much because we’re so good at it. We’re so good at chameleoning in the world. And I’m really good at it. I know that about myself and I try to catch myself when I start to do that because I know that’s not who I am. And I also think that this season of life is really asking me to step even more into that and really go for it. I already mentioned Glennon Doyle once and I’m going to mention her and Abby Wambach again because if I could meet anybody in the world, I’d probably meet those two women. And I am really inspired by the way they’re able to speak their truth and Glennon specifically, is able to write books about family dynamics that are complex.
If anyone’s unclear, go look up the book “Untamed” by Glennon Doyle. And it’s my favorite book ever. It’s so good. And I’m just inspired by that. I’m inspired and she’s just one example. There’s other people of course, but I’m really inspired by that. Again, it goes back to curiosity. I’m curious what my life could look like if I were to commit to that even deeper than I have already.
Kelli: Mm. So this is a thought that I’ve had for the past few years on this show, and even just being in a relationship with Connor, who likes to prove me wrong on everything. And it’s so fun and really enjoyable, for the record. I feel like Andrew is not such a pain in the ass, but maybe I’m wrong.
Sarah: Ehh, questionable.
Kelli: He has his moments, I’m sure. But something that I’ve really grappled with is the idea of truth.
Kelli: Because I am constantly…and it’s not about right or wrong, it’s not about my guests coming on to prove me wrong, but it’s the curiosity within me that wants to seek deeper just like you. And what I find is that as I seek deeper, what I have believed or thought to be true, I’m then like, no, that’s not true or that’s not my truth. And I think I’ve done episodes on this because I’m like, what the fuck is up with truth? What is it? And so, I’m really curious for you, how your own truth has evolved and how you have viewed truth differently over time, especially since becoming a mother and shifting your own lens of how you view things.
Sarah: I don’t know if I have a great answer for that yet because I feel like it’s a deeper journey that I’m embarking on. And I can still answer the question because I know that in the beginning of podcasting I was more closed off, I guess, in my ability or what could possibly be true. And I was a little bit more set in my ways, especially around health stuff because hello, trauma around medical systems and trauma in my body. And so, that made me very closed off to what was true about my body or what was true about the way in which you were supposed to heal or what was good for you or bad for you. And I don’t think I could have admitted that at the time, but I think looking back in retrospect, it’s like, okay, you were definitely a little bit more closed-minded as far as what you invited in as a possibility of truth versus what you were set in and your own vision of truth.
And it’s like confirmation bias, right? Where I only was seeking out the things that confirmed that my belief was the right belief. And there’s potential harm and potential negative side effects of that, as we know. And I think that over time, especially as my body became more like a place that I could feel at home, more safe to live in, I started to feel safety within, which then allowed the idea of what was true to stretch and expand. It allowed me to explore more and to experiment more. And I’ve learned that in my gene keys. I recently worked with a coach who helped me understand gene keys and some human design in there too, which I’ve been working on for a while. But one of my things is that I thrive in experimentation and flirtation and sort of this let’s take a few steps this way and a few steps that way and just play. And I wasn’t doing any of that. I was like, this is good, this is bad. I’m going to go that way. Because I always liked control. I love control. And…
Kelli: I don’t know anything about that so you’re super weird.
Sarah: Yeah, right. Oh, so yeah, that control. I mean, it’s sexy. It’s like, yeah, give me some of that control. And I started to feel safer letting go of the control and safer to explore different truths that were not my truth at that time. And all of a sudden those walls, that container I was living in with the possibility of what could be true started to stretch and I got okay, more comfortable with being wrong. And I imagine with a husband now that is always trying to prove you wrong, it’s probably really fucking annoying. And it probably also, it’s like the fast track to being okay with being wrong sometimes because you’re like, oh yeah. Maybe I wasn’t right in that situation or in what I said or whatever it may be.
And I think I’ve just seen the edges of that really stretch for me almost to the extent that when I create content now, I can see, play out in my mind, the five different ways that people can interpret it in their context of what’s true or not true, if that makes sense. And I have to just let it then go and take on its own life and just post it anyways and not overthink the all different ways that somebody might possibly interpret a word that I used and just let it have the words that it does and just take on its own life.
So now as I embark deeper on this, to me, it’s the radical truth-telling journey. So it’s not just what is truth, and it’s certainly not what’s right and what’s wrong because there’s so much gray area in all of that. But it’s instead, truth-telling and me really being able to speak my emotions, my sensations I feel in my body, my beliefs; knowing that my beliefs may evolve and change over time, but what’s surfacing right now, and leaving the space to be wrong or to experiment or to be in that flirtation energy of trying things out.
My mom has recently got into crafting. And I’m so inspired by it because I’m like, shit, I used to love some crafting like scrapbooking in high school and painting in college. I love me some art. I was a studio art minor in college actually, for charcoal. I did a lot of charcoal drawings. No one probably knows that about me because it’s probably been 10 years since I picked up a paintbrush or a stick of charcoal to create something from the expression of my heart. And I just, I miss that. So the truth-telling for me now is just something I can’t deny. It’s something that it’s like this yearning, this seduction that I just can’t push away that’s asking me to do it in order to live a bigger, fuller life that I desire. And to do so for my daughter as well, to be a better example for her of that. There’s so much life outside of work.
Kelli: Mm. That’s so beautiful. I want to end just talking about identity for a second. We get so connected to these different identities. And you and I have had this conversation a few times, especially in private, around our identity revolving around being sick. And then there’s the identity of I’m a podcaster, and then I’m a wife, and I’m a mother. And so, you have all these different identities and there’s constant shedding and rebirthing and reconfiguring what that looks like. How would you say your relationship is with your identity now?
Sarah: Mm-hmm. I just joined a moms group, honestly, because I’m desperate for connection and community here and just people who speak mom language. And our first session last week was on identity. And we went around the circle and we talked about how our identity has shifted. And something that I brought to the table was just this, I’ve written about this a little on social media, but this idea, this term ‘zwischen‘ that’s a German word that means ‘in-between’. And for me, it was the thing that was so alive within me, especially as I was teetering between pregnant Sarah; maiden archetype, and into mother-baby’s-earthside Sarah. And I could just feel my body, my whole being, my energy, just teetering back and forth. Like it could happen any day now, but it’s not here yet. It could happen any day now, but it’s not here yet.
And that ‘in-between’ is honestly one of the most uncomfortable, I wouldn’t say painful; painful has been grief, painful has been sleep deprivation that I’m going through right now, but it was one of the most uncomfortable things I have ever experienced of being… It’s like I was standing in the middle, turning around, looking at old me, yet still, I’m still in her body, but she was over there in the distance. Because I knew I wasn’t her anymore, yet I wasn’t…it reminds me of that song, “Not A Girl, But Not Yet A Woman,” right? It’s like, then in the distance, I’m like, okay, I’m about to be a mom. And arguably you’re already a mom, regardless of whether your baby comes earthside or not, or when your baby comes earthside. But there’s also something different about your life when you’re holding a baby versus carrying a baby in your womb. And that tug that pushed back and forth, I had zero answers.
And going back to control, I just wanted to be able to answer the question, who the fuck am I, and how is my life about to change, and what’s coming? And this future-forward thinking of wanting to know and wanting to have all the answers and wanting to know what was next and being able to prepare for it when there’s just no preparing for it. You can prepare a nursery, but you won’t even use it at first. Your baby’s just going to sleep in your room anyways. Or you can prepare, I don’t know, by organizing all of your drawers, which felt really good, but there’s not actually any true preparation for the identity shift that you’re about to go through. And so, I’m reminded especially of that period of several weeks where I just didn’t have the answer.
And then, fast forward. Okay, now I am a mom. Emersyn’s 10 months now and I still feel like there’s a lot of that ‘zwischen‘ energy. I think it’s going to take at least this first full year of motherhood to still be in that wading through the waters of the ‘in-between’ in the liminal space, in the ‘I don’t know’, in the ‘who the fuck am I?’, in the ‘I don’t know what’s happening next, I don’t know what next developmental leap she’s going through’. I’m doing all of this for the first time and I’m doing all of it alone for the first time. And so, it’s just a lot of sitting in I don’t know who Sarah’s going to be in a year from now. And I’m excited to see who she is, but I don’t know who she is going to be.
And so, can I find some comfort and some okayness with not jumping forward and future-telling and trying to be at the end destination and instead, really focus on the presence of these beautiful moments I get to have with Emersyn every day and the bonding that we’re building with each other? Because it is a lot of times I feel like it’s me and her against the world. And while that’s challenging, it’s also bringing us so close together. So identity is this thing that is ever-evolving. It’s ever-evolving, it’s ever-shifting. I think I’m growing constantly. I’m growing at hyper speed right now because of the situation of life that I’m in. And at the same time, I think my basic yearning and need as a human is to want to feel anchored. I want to feel anchored.
And most days it’s hard to find my anchor, so the ways that I do find my anchor are reminding myself what I know to be true. I know that I’m doing my best today, I know that I’m passionate about helping highly sensitives and empaths in the world. I know that it feels good to be close to my best friends in Michigan, I know… Just these tiny little truths that I know to be true in my body. And I feel like that helps anchor me because the bigger questions of where is my business going? When will I start podcasting again? Will I start podcasting again? What’s parenthood going to look like next year? When are we going to get pregnant with our second child? I don’t have the answers to any of those questions. So I have to find little anchors to allow me to feel content, present, and live my damn life and not sit here feeling like I don’t have enough information so I can’t live my life. I want to live my life and all the beautiful moments that are available to me right now, regardless of not having all the answers.
Kelli: Mm-hmm. That’s beautiful.
Sarah: Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk that out. That was actually so helpful.
Kelli: Oh my God, that was great. Oh, good. That’s what we podcast for, right?
Sarah: Yes. It’s processing with all of you.
Kelli: Exactly. I love it. I would just love to know what your hope and your wish for your listeners and your community is?
Sarah: Mm. I hope that regardless of how long anybody has been listening, that they continue to stay curious, to ask empowering questions, and to seek out community and connection that makes them feel alive. And I hope that the podcast has been a point of connection and validation, and seeing your triumph and seeing your pain, and holding you tightly in some of the challenging moments of your life. But I also know that you don’t need me and that we are all capable of hard things. And so, I invite them to continue that journey of asking the hard questions and being curious about themselves so they can continue to evolve. Stagnation is so uncomfortable. But in order to evolve, I think we have to keep asking big questions that we might not have the answer to yet.
So one last thing I would say is just that I love you all so much and I will always be in your corner, even if it’s not in the same way that I’ve showed up or held space for all these thousands of people up until now. I’m still in your corner and rooting for you. I know how capable you are.
Kelli: Mm-hmm. And I just want to add, as someone who… Ugh, told you. As someone who listened to your podcast before I ever knew you, before I ever had the pleasure of producing your show, you’re just such a remarkable person and I’ve learned so much from you. And in 15 years of chronic illness and feeling so isolated, to have someone like you who made me feel okay, and who I didn’t even know but I felt like you held my hand, and you said the things I couldn’t say myself, and you put words to feelings that I didn’t understand. And you also, beyond that, expanded my idea of what was possible for myself as a woman, as a businesswoman, as a wife, and as a soon-to-be mom. And you’ve really just blown everything open through your own curiosity and the way you’ve held space and asked questions.
So thank you for doing this. And also thank you for not doing it. We were joking with each other because I ended my show and you’re like, way to go. You gave me permission to end mine. But truly, you not doing this is such a beautiful example, for me, of boundaries and evolution and really honoring ourselves at every step of the way, and I commend you. And more than anything, I respect you so much, Sarah. I respect you so much and I admire you. And I’m really fucking excited to see what’s to come, whether it’s podcast or not. You’re just so dope and the world is better because of you. So thank you.
Sarah: Thank you. Thank you so much. I receive all of that with the biggest embrace and hug. And it means so much to hear that from you because I see you as this amazing, resilient, and high-integrity, badass woman, and you inspire me so much as well. And I have really felt held by you and your entire team. You guys, Soulfire Productions is fucking bomb. Go work with them. They’re so amazing, they’re so incredible. Kelli has built this incredible community that I’m so grateful to be part of and has really helped me… It’s like they’ve co-parented the show with me so…
Sarah: They’ve been able to hold the show in its integrity, in its sacredness, and it’s really hard to find that. So I just want to say thank you to you and your team for just helping me; helping me share my voice with the world in such a big way and yeah… I don’t know what’s to come, but I am excited and curious around what will evolve and what will come next. Thank you, Kelli.
Kelli: Thank you.
Website: Soulfire Productions
Podcast: OK, Babe
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April 14, 2022