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In this episode, we discuss:

• Pivoting + surrendering control
• Money as energy and flow
• Why now is a good time to market + grow
• How to embody the frequency of wealth
• Manifesting abundance + not acting from a place of fear
• How to shift into a place of trust
• Reframing language from “to me” to “for me”
• Bringing feminine energy into your business
• Changing careers + taking a new path
• Why you want to invest in yourself
• Strategy tips for podcasting

Additional Resources:

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Episode Transcript:

Sarah Small: Welcome to the Uncensored Empath, a place for us to discuss highly sensitive energy, illness, healing and transformation. My name is Sarah Small. I’m a life and success coach for empaths who want to create a thriving body, business and life. Think of this podcast as your no BS guide, navigating life, health and entrepreneurship. You’ll get straight to the point totally holistic tips from me in real time, as I navigate this healing and growth journey right beside you. This is a Soul Fire production.

Honestly all, being a business owner right now is weird. There’s so much to navigate, and I’ve been doing the best I can. Well, I’m sure missing things, screwing up in some ways, putting out imperfect things. I’m just rolling with it because I really truly believe that we’re being asked to be innovative and creative, adaptable, flexible during this time and to release this constriction of control that I know so many people have been living in for so long, including myself, the sense of control always was this false cloak of safety, and we’re really being asked to take that cloak off and step into our truth and our power.

While it is a weird time to be a business owner, and the context, the landscape is changing every single day, I’m just trying to keep up with it all the best that I can. It was so, so nice to have this very refreshing, real, honest conversation with two other female business owners in today’s episode. This recording actually comes from the free online Soul Fire Retreat series, that was such an honor for me to be a part of. Soul fire productions is a name you’ve probably been hearing at the beginning of every one of my episodes now. We came together as a community, as a network of podcasts, along with some of our favorite guests and Kelli and Connor, who are the head of the network, interviewed just some amazing people and put out some really supportive content that it really addresses the current landscape that we’re in.

So Kelli is the host of the Kelli Show and also co-host of Okay Babe, both amazing shows. She is the realist, the rise, the most down to earth. I fucking love this woman. The other woman on this interview is Christina Rice. She is the host of Wellness Realness. She tells it like it is. She is fiery. I just love the energy she brings into this conversation. She has so many good pieces of advice. Honestly, I think we were all taking notes on what each other was saying, because we spit so much fire out, so many good nuggets of wisdom that I know you’re really going to learn so much from today, if you’re considering starting a business, running a business, considering some sort of pivot or change in your life in general. There’s so much guidance included in this conversation with Kelly and Christina, that it’s such an honor to be part of.

I think we’re all looking for more conversations like this right now that are just really open and also acknowledging that we don’t have all the right answers, but that we’re just trying to navigate this as best as we can within each of our businesses. So Kelli does an amazing job of guiding this conversation. Christina drops so many nuggets, and you’ll hear me answering the questions as well. I hope you gain so much from this. Let’s dive in.

Pivoting + surrendering control

Kelli Tennant: Girls, thank you so much for joining me today. I like seeing both of your shiny faces, it makes me happy. There’s a lot going on in the world, and we’ve been having conversations, as both of you know, in this online retreat series, focused on so many different topics. What I love about what both of you bring to the table, is you’re very multifaceted in what you offer. There’s the chronic illness piece for all three of us, and how we’ve worked through that, and how that has really inspired us to support people.

I think that given the current state of what we’re all going through, it’s really interesting how this is going to help people shift and is going to inspire new careers for so many people, and is going to allow them to be of service in a way they never expected. I think that’s what all three of us have done in own lives, the way we’ve shown up for people, probably not what we thought it was going to look like, but because something crazy and ginormous was thrown in our way, we pivoted.

Sarah, you were just talking to me about pivoting being the big word and big sort of mantra and idea that you’re focused on right now, that’s really coming to you. So I would love for you to start with what pivoting means for you right now, and how you’re experiencing pivoting in your own life, is really of service now and what you can show people as possible.

Sarah Small: Absolutely. I really think that we’re being called on to be creative and innovative, and to look at these old structures in our minds especially, in a round manifestation that were based on what we think we wanted or was best for people and this idea of control. I think so many of us have been stuck in these patterns of control, and trying to control the outcome and the results of the program we launched, or the number of clients we have, or ‘This program needs to launch around this day, and it has to look this way and be fucking perfect.’

Pivoting to me right now is really surrendering control, letting go of what we had planned or what we thought we were supposed to do. Instead, just devoting ourselves to the universe to spirit and just being like, use me, like, hands up, I surrender, use me in the way that you see best fit, and really being an open channel for what needs to be delivered to the world right now. So I’ve been really just leaning in to surrender, that has helped me then get more innovative and creative and pivot within my business.

I had a program, a bundle that I was going to create with two other entrepreneurs. They actually are both previous clients, right around when quarantine started, and we stopped. I’m not saying you can’t sell during this time because I do not think that that’s true, but the moment this all started, we fell into our hearts and we’re like, this doesn’t feel like the right program to be putting out right now.

We thought it was, based on what income we wanted and the control we wanted to put out into the world, and we just surrendered to this isn’t the right time right now and maybe in the future, and just really coming back to home to our hearts and asking, what is needed right now? How can I be of highest service right now? Not about me, but about being of service to the world. That’s helped me personally pivot numerous times in the last three weeks.

Kelli Tennant: Christina, I know that you’re so good at listening to what people need and responding to your clients, to your listeners, to your community. It’s one of the greatest strengths that you have. How are you utilizing this time to listen even more, listen further, and then show up in a different way?

Christina Rice: Are you guys into human design?

Kelli Tennant: Oh, yeah.

Christina Rice: This is a great time to be a generator as I am, like just to respond, respond, respond. I see it as there are two options, you can either crumble and say, ‘’Why is this happening to me? I can’t do anything, my business is stunted, how am I going to make rent the next couple months?’’ Or, you can say, ‘’Where’s the opportunity in this? Where can I expand? Where can I pivot to Sarah’s point and grow?’’

I think for me, it’s like, okay, all this shit is happening in the world, let me pause and respond to what my audience is asking, what they’re needing. The first thing I did, when I was like, ‘’Okay, what’s happening,’’ is I put on Instagram, ‘’How can I serve you right now? What are you struggling with?’’ My audience gave me exactly what I needed. They told me, ‘’I don’t know how to pivot my own business. I’m struggling with anxiety. I don’t know how I’m going to make rent.’’ So it’s like, ‘’Okay, how can I create content to fill that need?’’

No matter what industry you’re in, everybody I’m talking to right now, I’m trying to open space for them to think, how can I pivot my business move more into the online space, and adjust what I thought I was supposed to do, like what’s the need right now? Everybody can come out on top. If you look at it from that direction, how can I serve people, and in doing so, I can also make more money. But I think, going back to what Sarah said, it is about releasing control and just surrendering to the situation.

As soon as you start to think about how this is happening for you, I think a lot of beauty can come out of it, because it’s forcing us to go to the edges, and that’s where we expand. So the sooner you just get over the fact like, gosh, it’s happening, but where is the opportunity in this, then you can step into that, push yourself in a new direction, and it’s probably in the long run going to expand your business in so many more ways than you ever could have expected because now you’re adding more things and looking at things in a new light. I just think in the long run; it’s really going to serve all of us in a better way.

Why now is a good time to market + grow

Kelli Tennant: Both of you have podcasts with us and we were all in our group, host mastermind call, the other day, and I was sharing with you guys where I am, it feels awkward or clunky for me to be selling right now. I’m so happy that both of you are on this call, I told everyone I was selfishly going to talk to you both and take notes, because you guys are actually on the reverse side of things. You really believe that money is energy and flow, and we want to keep putting that back into the system.

If we’re spending things and people are spending with us, and there’s just that continued growth, I would love for you to talk us through your mindset. Sarah, if you want to start with this on, why now is a time to be growing a business, to be marketing, to be spending, and how you work through that thought process?

Money as energy and flow

Sarah Small: I have just been really feeling into these codes around a new earth. I feel like there’s so much destruction right now, and a lot of it is so heartbreaking. As an empath, I’m feeling it and waves of it. But with the destruction also comes creation. So I’m also feeling creation of this newness and this opportunity of being able to serve the world in a new way, in a more aligned way, and to birth things into the world right now.

So I had to sit with myself around selling right now and what feels good and what doesn’t feel aligned. I’ve changed some offers, but ultimately, I keep coming back to, I still feel aligned with putting offers out into the world, because you were just talking about the circulation of money. So if we all stop putting out offers into the world as coaches and entrepreneurs and businesses, and everyone starts hoarding their money, and just trying to cut expenses, versus putting that money back into the system, well that the economy is going to top and halt. We have to have this flow, the circulation of money, and ultimately, there is still the energy of money circulating on our planet.

So I keep asking myself, ‘’How do I want to be putting money into that system, that helps circulate in a more sustainable way? Also, where am I going to put offers out that are also of service to the world to help people also have the opportunity to put their money into the system, into the circulation of the energy, of money in an aligned way?’’ I was talking to a friend about this the other day around wealth, embodiment, and what it means to be like wealth conscious right now, and to embody the frequency of wealth, and wealth in always not just money.

Part of that, to me, embodying the frequency of wealth is not backing away, when shit gets hard, and not dipping into my own scarcity and own fear based thoughts around money, and instead, continuing to play the game of energy, play with energy. Money is just neutral energy. So we just get to play with it. I just keep thinking about where I’m putting my dollars and what offers I’m putting out, that are in alignment right now, so we can keep that circulation going.

Kelli Tennant: That’s so good. Christina, I’d love to hear your take.

Christina Rice: When you think about manifestation, a big part of that is passing tests. I think right now is the ultimate test for people. So it goes back to exactly what Sarah was saying, you can act out of fear and fail the test, or you can say, ‘’I’m worth this, I know I’m going to survive this, and I’m going to come out of it even better than before,’’ and put your money into things and invest and say, ‘’Hey, universe, I’m worthy, I’m not afraid, I trust you, and I trust that I’m going to come out stronger, better than this.’’ That is how you manifest abundance, wealth, money.

So I think that on an energetic level right now is the time where it’s more important than ever before to keep putting your money into the system and to yourself more than ever before. If you want to think long term, everybody who’s putting money into themselves and into the system right now, it’s going to come out manifesting abundance and wealth in a few months and further on down the line. Now is a really, really important time to step into your power and stuff, into love and faith and trust in the universe, instead of acting out of a place of fear, which a lot of people are, and those are the people who are hoarding their money.

When we want to manifest in abundance, we have to think, how does somebody who is wealthy live, and that doesn’t mean they just throw their money away, they’re still responsible with their money, but they’re not acting out of a place of scarcity. It’s a replace of responsibility and trust, and that’s two different energies. I think a lot of people misunderstand when we say, keep putting money into the system. It’s not saying, just throw away all of your money, but don’t act out of a place of fear, like, ‘’I can’t afford that,’’ somebody who’s rich is not going to say that.

It’s like, I don’t want to invest in that right now, but I do want to invest in myself because I know that when I do that, I can come out on top, later on down the line. So I just think that right now more than ever before, it’s really important energetically to be putting in the money into the system, and to keep going because we’re at this place where we’re facing the unknown and reptilian brain, the unknown is maybe there’s a tiger back there, that’s going to kill me.

So people want to take a step back, but the unknown is also where we expand. That’s where creativity lies. If we really want to get to the next level, you have to face the unknown, you have to push forward. So I just see this as the ultimate test, and I want people to trust and keep moving forward, and I promise it will pay you forward. So that’s my perspective.

How to embody the frequency of wealth

Kelli Tennant: I love that so much. Actually, right before we got on this call, I did an entire solo episode talking about trust, trusting ourselves. This is a moment where we have an opportunity to trust ourselves in ways we may never have before. If we don’t trust ourselves, why would someone else trust us? If we’re not putting money into a system, if we’re not investing in ourselves, why are people going to invest in us as well? Why will they trust us? I loved the way you both put this in trust.

We have a moment here where we have options, and we cannot trust ourselves and we can be in full chaos and spiral, and that will lead us down one path, or we have an opportunity to trust ourselves to know that all of humanity over and over and over again has gotten through tough times, regardless of what it looks like, we are resilient as humans, and we can overcome things.

I keep going back to 2008, it keeps reminding me, so many businesses were birthed out of a horrible recession, where people were losing their homes, women were going to go back to work, they had children, they didn’t know what to do. All of a sudden, they had to go and get jobs because they had to support their families, where they lost so much, and they didn’t know what to do. They lost all of their wealth and everything in the stock market, and there was nowhere else to go, but to know, I can do this.

I think that’s what both of you are doing in this moment, is teaching other people that it doesn’t have to be ugly, that it doesn’t have to be horrible, that coming out of this, when you have that inner trust in knowing of your own abilities to overcome and be resilient, there is a plethora of opportunity and light on the other side. Of course, we’re all going to have fear and anxiety and there’s going to be some nerves because there is so much unknown. So when we get into those moments, when we’re like, ‘’I don’t know what the fuck to do, like this is crazy and new for me,’’ how do we get our minds and shift into this trusting and this knowing? Sarah?

Sarah Small: So when we talk about the central nervous system, anything that is unfamiliar, is initially perceived as a threat by our autonomic nervous system, which is part of our brain stem literally labeling things as safe or unsafe. So what’s unfamiliar and uncertain is initially going to feel scary.

I have been encouraging my community, my one on one clients, group coaching programs lately, everybody to just feel into that, and not to avoid it, to just sit and be like, I’m fucking scared right now, I’m worried about my money, I’m worried about my job, I’m worried about my kids, I’m worried about whatever, whatever that stressor is, the nervous system in a very natural supposed to be protective way for us, like Christina was just talking about, the tiger that feels like it’s behind you, and it’s like, shit, once it’s, how you are going to attack.

So we go into this survival response and mode in our body, and it’s very normal. I just keep encouraging everyone that it’s okay to sit in that for a moment, it’s okay to embody that and to look around and just observe what’s happening in your body, to feel into your heart, to notice how your system is reacting to the current situation, instead of just trying to sprinkle glitter on everything right now. It’s not all fucking glitter. There’s some things that are scary.

So I’m not saying, sit in it forever, but let yourself be there for a moment. Maybe we all need to learn what isolation feels like. Maybe we all need to realize how to cope with this stress and the context of the world in healthier ways, and maybe that to speak to Christina’s point, that’s part of the test right now, how are we going to rise up above this?

So don’t be afraid to sit in it for a moment, but then I’m moving out of it and I’m going, Okay, so my body feels afraid, it feels scarcity, it feels fear, and I try to disprove it, and I’m like, but I have a roof over my head, but there is money in my bank account. I was furloughed at one of my jobs, my yoga teaching job, but there’s still income coming-in in other areas, and just really being okay with every flavor of emotion that comes up right now. Does that answer your question?

Kelli Tennant: No, that’s incredible. I love that because it’s not about avoiding feelings in this moment, it’s about feeling feelings, acknowledging where we are, acknowledging the anxiety in your chest or the stomach ache because you don’t know what’s going to happen, you don’t know where your next paycheck is coming from, and that’s okay. Then, moving and flowing through those emotions into, okay, what can I allow to now come into my space? I have cleared this, and I have let myself feel these things. Then, there is more on the other side. Christina?

Christina Rice: I have a lot of things to say about this. What Sarah said is so perfect. I think we have a really beautiful opportunity to go deeper here. It goes back to you have to feel the heel, right? So like Sarah is talking about, let yourself feel it and sit with it and actually identify the emotion first of all, because it’s not always just fear. There’s more to it, and where do you feel in your body. Ironically, what people don’t realize is, if you have really bad anxiety about something, if you sit with it for 10 minutes, it will go away much faster than if you feel it, but never actually just let yourself sit with it, and actually feel it.

So it’ll go away much more quickly if you let yourself feel it, but identifying what the feeling actually is, and where you feel in your body, but then going deeper into where you felt it before, because there’s a good chance that especially right now, we’re not feeling just fear and anxiety around what’s happening right now. We’re feeling all the fear and anxiety from shit that’s happened earlier on in our lives and past lives. It’s all bubbling up right now and coming to the surface, everything we haven’t worked through.

So if you can identify that feeling really, and where it is in your body and think where have they felt this before, and start to move through those experiences, then you will expand in so many different ways because that’s really what this is about. This is another opportunity that we are given right now in this space. So I think that is one of the most important things we can do. So when we feel nervous, it’s very similar to when we feel excited.

I think for me, whenever I feel so scared or nervous, I’ll get quiet and I’ll think about all the times when something amazing has happened in my life. Every time something fucking incredible has happened, I feel scared. Anytime I’ve made a ton of money, like I put out a big launch or just like putting myself out there with vulnerability with somebody, putting out a crazy podcast telling someone I love them, I feel scared shitless, but something amazing came out of it.

So sometimes when you can really reframe that and realize maybe this is just the birth of something even more exciting, even better, we can turn those nerves into excitement because it feels so similarly in our bodies. I don’t know if this has been coming up for you guys, but every single day with tarot cards and with my friends.

Even psychically, everyone’s like, I keep pulling fertility cards, like I’m pulling fertility cards every single day, I have a lot of friends who have been having visions of babies. It’s not necessarily everyone’s – I mean people probably are going to have a lot of babies. [laughter] It is this idea of birth, and I think we all seem to think about with business and entrepreneurship, what separates the people who make it from the people who don’t.

There are many things, but one of the most important things is when it gets tough, you rise to the occasion and trust that this is going to work out, you feel so strongly that you are doing something that is serving other people, and that your heart’s in it, like this is aligned, it’s going to work out. Do you really trust in that and you’re going to push through the hardship? Or, do you crumble and take a step back, because you’re afraid? People who are afraid and take a step back are the people who don’t make it. So who do you want to be? You get to choose who you want to be right now. So that’s how I feel about it.

Kelli Tennant: Damn, girl, mike drop over and over. I love talking to you, too. I just got super inspired right now. I actually was talking about that in my solo I just recorded as well. We are in choice right now. I think part of the problem collectively is that we don’t feel we’re in choice. We feel like we are being mandated to stay in our homes, and this is what you are, and you aren’t allowed to do, and then we throw our hands up in the air, we’re like, fuck it, I’m not doing anything.

We are still in choice in every moment, in how we show up, in how we interact in the conversations we have, within the ways we are of service to people, in the intentions that we set. How have you guys moved from, okay, I’m stuck in my house, and these are the things I have to do, and these are the rules I have to follow, into, I get to do XY and Z, and these are my choices? Sarah?

Manifesting abundance + not acting from a place of fear

Sarah Small: I have to be honest here, fully transparent, that this is also partially introvert dream. I do love this right now. So it hasn’t been super challenging for me. But my answer is also a lot of what you just said Kelli, around the language that we use. So is this happening to me, or is this happening for me? I keep asking, what is showing up in the most perfect defined way right now, and looking for the evidence that this is happening for me, versus to me.

It goes back to that surrendering control as well as realizing, yeah, maybe there are more rules around where I can and cannot go, and the people can and cannot interact with lately. But, how can I choose to bring community and interaction and socializing into my life in a way that is just different, is innovative, like face timing and zooming friends more often lately. Christina just talked about Oracle cards, and it reminded me that I pulled a card for myself the other day, and it was similar to fertility, but it was the infinite supply card.

So it felt like this really abundance of that creation, of that birth energy, and reminding myself that even though there may be more external rules, I get to choose and be at cause for my reality, and I am choosing that there’s an infinite supply, that there is an unlimited source for me to tap into right now, and how do I get to use this time for me, versus feeling like a victim of it, because when we’re in that victim mentality, there’s not a lot of good things that can happen if you stay stuck in that place. So I’m really trying to reframe for growth.

Kelli Tennant: Christina?

Bringing feminine energy into your business

Christina Rice: Something that’s coming up for me right now is – I personally don’t even remember the question, but I feel like we have been in such masculine mode for so long just as a collective. Right now is a really beautiful space to get more into our feminine. For me, again, I’m a hermit, so this is great for me. It really hasn’t changed my day to day that much, to be quite honest. But it has changed a lot of the energy I’m feeling as an empath and the way I’m coaching people and the way I’m responding to my audience for sure. So I’m definitely feeling it in that way.

But I’m starting to think about, okay, my daily life is, even though I’m in my house a lot, I feel so go-go-go-go. A lot of people feel that in the same way, but right now, we can introvert for a second and use this space to be a lot more creative, which for a lot of people, especially with business marketing, you might have been lacking for a while, if you’ve been too far in the masculine. So right now is how can you bring more of that feminine energy into your business and take this space to get quiet. I know, at least for me, and for most people, we feel our most creative when we are quiet, when we allow for a silence.

So it’s about taking in that open space and getting more creative right now. I think that’s a really great way to expand your business in this time period and just how you reframe that in your mind, think about Okay, what do I usually focus on in my business? Where have you been feeling like ‘I’m lacking’? For a lot of people, it is that more creative space, the more feminine energy, so now I have open space to work on that. So let’s just dive in and take advantage of it. I think that’s really helpful.

Kelli Tennant: So, so good. So a lot of people on this call right now are entrepreneurs, have their own businesses, they’re selling products and services, and probably feel like all of us do, we’re taking a bit of a hit, and we’re having to restructure what our offerings look like, how we’re pricing things, where we’re selling. If you’re selling in stores, and all of a sudden, certain stores aren’t open and then you’re only able to sell on Amazon and how we can move things, so that it makes sense for us.

I would love your guidance on steps that people can take, so that they can still continue selling or reaching their right customers and have that intention of being of service and showing up with the best quality, whatever it looks like, but not feeling the burden or having to sacrifice what they’ve built for so long.

Sarah Small: Yeah, it’s easier when I have a strategic example, but I encourage you to –

Kelli Tennant: I’ll give you an example because I know she’s on the call and I think she’ll be okay with this. So if you have a company that is selling the best, highest quality chocolate on the planet, and people are not necessarily buying as much luxury items, or you can even use whether it’s beauty products or buying clothes because we’re not leaving the house. When you’re in that situation, what do we do?

How to shift into a place of trust

Sarah Small: Okay, so first of all, shifting your marketing is really important and all of us need to step into our roles as coaches right now, even if you’re not traditionally a coach, you’re a coach right now. You need to coach people, reframe for them why they need your product or service. Pay attention to the times. The worst mistake people can make right now is acting like nothing’s going on, and keep marketing as it is. Shit’s happening, people are addressed head on, I know that you don’t want to spend your money right now, but this is why it actually will help you. People are spending money on things, where they feel like it’s going to improve their health, help with the Coronavirus, if it’s going to mental health.

So reframe for them, very specifically how your product, your service, the chocolate, there are so many different angles you could take with how that’s beneficial for someone right now, and why now of all times is the point when they should invest in this delicious healthy chocolate. You’re probably still having sugar cravings at home, you want a healthier option, this block will last a long time, it’s stable in the fridge. There’s so many different if you go deeper into that, but the point is to reframe for people why they actually need this right now your specific product.

Speak very directly to that person. Also taking advantage of I don’t care what industry you’re in, you need to do it in my opinion, is take advantage of the fact that so many people are online right now, people are bored, people are already getting sick of Netflix, be their Netflix, provide education. That was a really great time to fill that gap if you haven’t been educating as much, you haven’t been on video that much, or you haven’t taken any opportunities to create community, now is your chance, how can you make your product, your service associated with community that’s online.

There’s so many different ways you can do that webinar; this is where you can insert the education. People are craving community and connection right now, and people are also pretty open to anything that will entertain them. If you can be entertaining, and provide education and value, then people are going to pay attention. This comes back to I just feel like this is a golden opportunity for everyone’s business, where you can get in there, get in front of people’s heads, versus so many other times before, it’s like you have three seconds to capture someone’s attention. That’s a different ballgame.

Now it’s what are you going to do if you actually can get someone to sit down for 45 minutes or even five minutes, 10 minutes and pay attention to you, you have a lot more opportunity to reframe and really drive home why they need this right now. So again, it comes back to just taking the opportunity and again, shifting into more education and into entertainment, and addressing head on, ‘’Hey, I know you have this struggle with money right now, this is why you need my product,’’ or ‘’You might feel like you don’t need it because X, Y and Z, but this is actually why you do.’’ So step into that coach role for your audience.

Kelli Tennant: Also, I don’t remember who said this the other day to me, but they said, people are going to pay attention how you showed up during crisis. If you are showing up for your people, for your community, for your customers from the best place of intention and service and education, and caring about them, not just caring about sales and products and all of these things, but really going in with the intention of showing up during a crisis, people are going to pay attention and remember that when we come out of this.

Sarah Small: I just want to add a little something to that Kelli, I was on Facebook and reading this, somehow this thread locked me and I was reading all the comments. There are a lot of comments about how certain figures in the industry, it wasn’t like just coaching, it was just like entrepreneurs in general, and how people were saying like, ‘’Oh my gosh, so and so hasn’t acknowledged.’’ To Christina’s point, when you just fully acknowledge what’s going on, I think it really brings down this barrier, versus when you don’t acknowledge what’s happening and you just go about your merry little way, I think it can come off as insincere.

Then, a lot of people I work with have this fear of being salesy or sleazy or whatever, well, if you’re not addressing a global crisis, then maybe it does come off a little bit more that way, even if it’s not your intention. So it’s a really good opportunity to build that know, like and trust factor. On a personal level, I don’t think I’ve ever given out so much free content right now, but I’m still selling.

So there’s so much that I’m really just going back into the vault of all the content I have. There’s me with purple hair and blue hair and all the old videos that I am unearthing right now, I’m being like, ‘’Here you go, here you go.’’ But at the same time, that’s circulation of money we’re talking about, and I’m still selling and I’m still making money.

Kelli Tennant: I like that. Christina?

Christina Rice: I also just wanted to reiterate in terms of, we have to think long term game, and we’re not going to be in this space that we’re at right now forever. So I think that it’s really wise to actually put money into marketing right now, because let’s say, coca cow expands an ambassador program and every single influencer is talking about coca cow and everybody who’s on Instagram is seeing this. They’re seeing it for however long this last because we’re on social media, people are spending ridiculous amounts of time on Instagram right now.

Even if the sales are skyrocketing right at this moment, when it’s over, people were going to remember that’s all they saw for these however many weeks or months, and then it’s going to come in later on. So I just think that right now is just prime marketing opportunity. It comes back to always thinking about the big picture, not just where we’re sitting at right now.

I think especially with smaller businesses, or people who are first starting out, it can be easy to get paralyzed and feel like, I only want to put my money into something where I’m going to get the money back next week. That’s just not how it works. If you really have a good product or service, trust that it’s going to work out. I think it’s the ideal time to be putting money into marketing specifically on Instagram, to be honest.

Changing careers + taking a new path

Kelli Tennant: That’s so awesome. You guys, please drop any questions as specific as you want to get, that’s even better for these two, so they can provide support and a little insight on to where you are. I want to move to the topic of changing careers and directions during this time. Many people either been laid off from their jobs because they can’t afford to pay their employees anymore, or they’re taking this time in realizing, I didn’t want to be doing this to begin with, I’m going to utilize this time to create a new path for myself. Sarah, what would be your advice for someone who is looking to veer in a new direction at this time and the questions they should be asking themselves?

Sarah Small: I have several people in my community who have been laid off. While, it has brought up lots of internal stuff, they also see the deep divine timing in it because they were miserable at their job. I think a lot of people, not everyone of course, but when we mindful of the people who are not wanting that in their life, but a lot of people that I’ve personally talked to, also feel like, I might not have ever got the lady balls to quit and put in my notice, because it brought up so much fear for me to actually walk away from the money I was, because at least it’s something, at least it’s some money, and settling for fine. So I think in some cases, the opportunity of not being able to go into work is now opening a doorway to a better, more aligned path.

We’re talking about being at cause and having choice right now, if you empower yourself to look at it that way, because of course, you can stay in the victim mindset, or you can choose to say, and let it go like okay, what other opportunity that’s better and more aligned, maybe it pays more as well, is now opening up for me. So, the questions to be asking yourself, gosh, I would just keep checking in with what feels in alignment, and realizing where there was misalignment, fear, scarcity, just wanting to stay in this plateau of fine.

To me, it’s just settling, settling, settling in our lives, and ask yourself, where have I been settling? If there were no rules, I dropped all the fucking rules and all the lack of mindset and all the limiting beliefs of what I think is really possible, what would I actually want in my life? What would I actually desire? What would my career profession soul’s purpose look like? Can I now start to, during this time, research that, look for the opportunities, look for the doors that are opening up? People are actually still hiring right now.

If it’s being an entrepreneur, now’s a really great time. There is so much free content on how to start your business out there as well as obviously paid courses too, to be diving into, and learning and building that skill, like flexing that muscle of now’s the time sister, grab your lady balls and step up to the plate and go for it.

Christina Rice: Damn, I love the lady boss.

Kelli Tennant: Christina has lady balls. I know that for a fact. What do you have for me, girl?

Christina Rice: I totally echo everything. Sarah couldn’t have said it better. You have open space now to actually dive into your passion. So take advantage of it. There are two things I really want to point out because I feel like Sarah covered the main stuff. First of all, I always want to remind people to ask yourself, am I moving into destruction out of fear? Am I acting out of fear, versus out of love?

Because a lot of people might be saying they want to pivot or they want to get a new job, but it’s just out of fear. I think a lot of people are out of alignment, and this is a beautiful opportunity to move into something that is in more alignment. There are also other people who maybe they really do like their jobs, but they’re scared. So they’re just trying to pivot just because they’re afraid. That’s not the move to make. So always ask yourself if you’re acting out of a place of fear with everything with business.

Also, if you’re just looking to restructure your business, thinking big picture, there are two parts to this; first, what can I do? How can I be pivot right now to serve the current climate, and what people are in need of right now? This is really important. That’s what’s going to propel you forward. But also, if I’m restructuring or changing my business or career path, how is that also going to look long term?

So it’s about restructuring or starting a business that is going to work right now and serve people right now, but long term, will continue to grow, because I’ve seen a lot of people, they have taken advantage of what’s happening right now, and they’ve shifted their career, what they’re putting out there to serve the current times, but it doesn’t have longevity. I think that’s also bad for us energetically for trying to act like this is going to last a long time. I’m trying to go into it the mindset of like, Hey, this isn’t going to last as long as everyone thinks. I want whatever business decisions I make right now to be able to stand that test of time.

So that’s another thing to think about, what can you add in or shift or adjust, so that it’s better for you right now and better for your community right now, but also, that it will still serve a purpose in a year, two years, three years, 10 years. So it has to be able to be flexible and dynamic in that way. So I think thinking about that is super helpful.

Reframing language from “to me” to “for me”

Kelli Tennant: This is so good. You two have addressed this a little bit already. But I want you to explain why now is the time if you’re going to do this to invest in yourself and invest in coaching. So many people are scared, like we talked about hoarding their money, not spending money on things. If you’re going to spend money, right now is the time to invest in a coach, invest in someone who has – I won’t say answers because we all have the answers for ourselves, but they can ask you the right questions, so you find the answers that can guide you in a time of reframing things, in moving in a new direction, or really getting into your own truth and what’s meant for you. Sarah?

Sarah Small: I believe that when you make hard decisions, ballsy decisions, risky decisions, but your heart is screaming yes to those decisions in a freaking global pandemic that it’s going to pay off. If you had the guts to do that now, you’re going to be abundantly rewarded.

So I really encourage people to – yeah, there’s a lot going on right now, but if you can create the bravery and the courage and the motivation and drive to do this now, think about how many other things you are capable of, how much you’re going to be proving to yourself, that you don’t have anything to prove to the world, but what are you going to be proving to yourself in that action of investing in yourself now, and how freaking proud are you going to be of yourself six months, a year, five years, like Christina was talking, long term from now, you’re going to be so proud of yourself that you did that, even though it was scary, and even though it was a little edgy or sticky for you.

So I just really encourage people to look at that big picture and really step up to the plate of what their heart is calling them to do if it’s starting a business and investing in a coach, maybe making the biggest investment that they ever made in themselves, you are worth it, you deserve that now and always, this doesn’t change how deserving you are of investing in yourself.

Kelli Tennant: Damn! Christina?

Why you want to invest in yourself

Christina Rice:  I think it’s going to make you more pragmatic than ever, if you can do it right now. Anytime anyone who invest in coaching is going to be further ahead than someone who does it, because of that energetic exchange. It’s not because the coach has magical answers. They might know some things that you don’t, but at the end of the day, it’s because they push you towards the edges of expansion. I think of coaching as just the fast track to getting where you want to go.

So it’s like, you could get to where you want to go in five years or 10 years, or you could get there in three months. So what would you rather? I think right now is a really good time to make that big effort to take that big energetic step and make that big signal like, Hey, I am fucking worth this and like, I know it’s going to pan out like Sarah was saying. So I think it’s a smart move, and I also think it’s helpful because right now when things can feel super crazy and you have a coach to just keep things in perspective for you, it will really help you not make any unnecessary crazy decisions.

It goes back to what’s going to be worth it for you long term, what’s the right business move for you long term, and having a coach really just helps you realign. So I just think on every level, energetic, abundance, wealth, personal growth, like investing in coaching right now is more important than ever before, especially when you need that – mostly we need that emotional support, I think all of us do. So I think it’s now time, to be honest.

Kelli Tennant: Absolutely. All three of us have utilized our podcasts to reach more people and to provide more content during this time. I have a show coming out about every day right now. Much of that because of the online retreat, but it feels really good to me to be able to have these conversations and share it with people, and provide support and a service that has a lot of meaning and fulfillment for me. Podcasting is popping off right now.

I actually just talked to one of the guys that we work with at another company, that we work with through Soul Fire, he was telling me that the numbers and the rates of growth on their platform, which is a hosting platform, has almost tripled in the last two weeks because people are starting podcasts or reworking old shows and trying to reach people because it’s a way and a mode of media that we can reach more people. I’m curious how you guys look at podcasting now in this state when we can’t have live events, when we can’t reach people in person, and how we can get across such important content and information. Sarah?

Strategy tips for podcasting

Sarah Small: I love podcasting because it allows you to be in someone’s ear, and it feels intimate. In my opinion, it makes us feel connected at a time when we are in our silos of our homes. So people are more than ever, not only on social media and consuming content, but they’re looking for people they can trust. So there’s a lot of fear based content in media, the news, that is also being shared. To me, it feels like such a wonderful opportunity to be the person that they come to, for hope and for support and for motivation, and to also just feel all the feels, that it’s just like a really safe, supportive place, where I can intimately connect with them on the podcast.

So I’ve been loving using it. I’ve also been putting out more shows lately because it feels like there’s something in my heart that’s just saying like, ‘’Sarah, speak up, speak up, speak up. Say what you want to say, stop worrying so much about what’s right and wrong and what you’re going to be judged for, or whatever people are going to be critical of, and just step up now and start speaking your truth and be somewhere this beacon of hope that people can lean into at this time.’’ So I’m loving it, and I’m not surprised more people are going to be diving into it.

Kelli Tennant: Christina?

Christina Rice: I think it circles back to the idea of that we’re talking about before, people are going to remember who was there for them during this time period. Like Sarah was saying, podcasting feels very intimate and I know people who are longtime listeners of my show, feel like, oh, I’m going to listen to this twice a week because there’s something comforting about it. No matter what I say, I could talk about nothing. It’s just there’s something comforting about it. It’s sort of like, let’s say, you call your mom every Sunday, talk to her, it’s that piece of home, you love chatting with her, and now that she’s hitting the fan, you just want to talk to her every day, you call her every day during this time.

We need to show up for people in that same way. So instead of my listeners calling me twice a week to listen to the podcast, I want to be there for them more times during the week to really show up. It’s just that sense of comfort. With so much media that is creating more fear and panic, I don’t want to be adding to that noise. I want to be the one that people remember as, Oh, she actually made me feel calmer, she got my mind off of what’s going on. That’s who I want to be in this time period.

So yeah, I’m not surprised. It’s exploding and people have more time to listen to podcasts, as they’re trying to fill their time between Netflix and podcasts and Instagram. But I also want to say that, hopping into a podcast right now, I think people have this idea that they’re just going to start a podcast tomorrow because it’s a great space and it’s exploding. ‘’Okay, my podcast is going to explode,’’ it’s not that simple. You still have to be strategic with it, which is again, why I think coaching can be really helpful to do it in the right way.

Making money off of a podcast, people think they’re going to make money directly off of the podcast. If your first podcast is tomorrow, your actual podcast is not going to make you money, I can tell you that. But you don’t have to have a huge show to make money off of it. It’s about being strategic with how you’re going to use it, to serve people to be the one that they remember was there for them during this shitty time. Also, you can use it to fuel money into your business currently. It’s a great way to market, but it’s just about being strategic with it.

So I think that’s just another reason why coaching is helpful. I do think it’s a great time to hop into podcasting. But I think for reasons, that might be different than what people expect. I think people look at it as just like an easy answer. It’s like, guess what if everyone else is starting a podcast too, the numbers are still the same. So I think just being smart about it is super important.

Kelli Tennant: Yeah, listening, like you guys mentioned to what people need and showing up of service in that way and the way I see it too, I think podcasting for so long – hasn’t even been around that long, but for 8-10 years where it’s been prevalent, has been a lot of entertainment. I think during this time when people may be shifting careers or reevaluating who they are and what they’re doing, it’s more educational. It’s more of like taking a course.

Where can I go? Listen to Sarah, listen to Christina, get marketing advice, figure out how to run my business, veer off into a different direction. I think that’s where podcasting is going to thrive in this time, and that’s where we can answer the call is, how can we provide connection community and education, and show up for people, as they are reevaluating their lives in a different way than they may have ever done before?

Sarah Small: I was just going to say, it just feels like an opportunity to say yes to what your soul is calling, to what do you want to be rebirth out of this time? What are you going to say yes to? On the other side of this, you do get to manifest receive that new creation, that new normal, I think we’re all going to have a new normal on the other side of this, just simply, even if our job hasn’t changed just simply by the fact that we’ve been through this thing that’s unprecedented.

So what do you want that new normal tone look like? Now is your time to commit to that, and figure out what are the action steps I need to take in order to get there. I love how Christina has been emphasizing. It is now more than ever great time to work with a coach to help guide you, and someone to lean on to support you to get to that place.

Christina Rice: Also, just thinking when you said that, it’s like, I feel like so often in my life, I wish I had five days just paused. I could get so much work done. I get so much quality shit done, if I didn’t have all this other crap going on. It’s like, Oh, my God, this has just been inserted into our lives, I took advantage of it. Going back to your original question, I think the first thing is thinking about what your audience specifically need, which might be different than what my audience needs or Kelly’s or Sarah’s.

I know, for me, most of my audience is in the health and wellness space. I have a lot of health and wellness coaches. I don’t need to provide any statistics about Coronavirus. I don’t care. That’s not what you’re going to get when you come to my page. What I’m focusing on is how do you move through this, kind of a combination between how am I moving through this, because people are actually more interested in what I’m doing personally. All of us who have platforms, it’s like, people are very curious how other people are handling it and what they’re doing to move through it.

So providing people resources in that way more than ever before, because people want connection, opening up. So it’s like, what are some tangible tips for moving through this? How can I be more vulnerable than ever? So people feel connected. That also helps them to get their minds off of it. The other night, I went on Instagram and I was opening up about childhood abuse. I’ve never talked about before in my life, but someone messaged me that, ‘’For two whole days, I didn’t think about Corona because I was thinking about everything you brought up when discussing that.’’ People are craving that connection, it’s really beautiful time to be more vulnerable than ever.

Then also, just being that source of entertainment that, again, gets people’s minds off of it. So when I’m providing health education, which I do, I’m not focusing on the corona related things, because they can go to the other 5 million accounts talking about it, because that’s what I know my audience needs, but someone else’s audience might be different. So I think it’s about getting really clear on what your audience needs, and providing resources and education, entertainment to help them move through this space in a more hopeful perspective, because for me, I’m just trying to hammer home guys, like there’s opportunity in this. So I want to help you figure out what your opportunity is. That’s more helpful for people than just giving them fear based information.

Kelli Tennant: That’s so good. We just got a question and I’m going to wrap it up after this. They asked, ‘’Do you have any strategy tips for podcasting for both new shows and established?’’ Sarah, I’ll let you start here.

Sarah Small: I think really figuring out who you’re speaking to, is at least one of the first steps. If you are an established public figure, then sure, everyone might just come and want to listen to you talk about random shit and they’ll listen just because it’s you, because they love the crap out of you. I know when I first started my show about two years ago, I really thought about who is the audience I’m speaking to. We can really get into nitty gritty here at least a little bit around what are the three pillars that I’m going to be discussing on my show; chronic illness and pasts trauma are three things that I talk about a lot in my show. Not that they’re only can be three, but I really narrowed into what are the main topics of discussion, and who am I talking to, and the offers that we’ve been talking about creating for audiences right now in the middle of this outbreak.

Think also considering what is your audience want to hear from you on a podcast, not just right now during this time, but looking at the long term as well, what are the main topics that you’re going to be addressing in order to build a really loyal following. Then I found that after you have that loyal following, then you can record a show about your dog or something random or left-field. But in the beginning, I was really conscious of what content I was creating and what my audience wanted to hear. I hope that helps.

Kelli Tennant: That’s great. Christina, what about you? You’ve been doing this for like 20 years.

Christina Rice: Yeah, longer than I’ve been alive [laughs]. No, I’m 25.

Kelli Tennant: Oh girl, don’t even try. She’s reverse aging in isolation. [laughter]

Christina Rice: That was the number one thing I would say for sure. So Sarah is right on the money, in my opinion. I think also not thinking of the podcast as a standalone thing, but more of how can I integrate this, and enhance what I’m already doing using this. So with the audience you have on your other channels, it’s like, Hey, here’s a podcast to learn about this, because that’s easier for people to listen to all that doing other things. It’s a way for it to get more intimate.

Versus, thinking of it as the standalone thing as like, I’m going to put a podcast out into the universe and everyone’s going to come and find it tomorrow and I’m going to grow my audience. It’s more of like, how am I going to use the podcast to enhance my audience? I have my other channels to grow those, I think is a smarter strategy right now. Not saying it won’t grow as its own podcast separately, but really integrating it into what you’re doing to enhance what you already have, is a smarter strategy in my opinion, just because the chances of you going to number one on iTunes next week are low, to be honest.

But that’s not the value of a podcast. It’s how can you serve the audience I have and enhance these other channels, integrating it with growing your email list, on your website, on social media, and really just not thinking about it as a separate thing, that you endeavor totally more of like, I’m putting it into everything else to expand everything else. So I’m more well-routed.

Kelli Tennant: I think that’s amazing. Yeah, I agree with both of you completely. A couple things I would add from our perspective and what we really talk to our hosts about doing. When it comes to analytics and growing your show, so sharing on social media, one of the biggest issues that we see hosts run into is, they’re not sharing their show on their stories on social media enough, they’re not face to face in the camera talking about their guests and what they’re discussing and the topics that are coming up. That’s one simple change you can make, is just talking about your show, as it relates to your audience.

So listening, as both of you do so well, listening to what your audience needs and wants, and then when your guests address those topics, speaking to those things, so if you have a functional medicine doctor on who’s talking about chronic illness, you know that your audience is with you a lot of the time because of chronic illness and addressing Lyme disease and Fibromyalgia or Epstein-Barr virus and misdiagnosis. These are the topics we covered. Addressing those, that speaks to your audience, they’re more likely to show up because of it. I think that’s one way.

Another way is show titles. Show titles are things we just don’t think about, but that’s what grabs us. That’s the first thing someone is going to see when they’re scrolling through a feed. So even if you’ve had a podcast for years, you can go back and change show titles. Now that you have a better understanding of what you’re doing, don’t feel guilty about that. Go back and change those, maybe it’s changing one word, maybe it’s changing it, so that it addresses where your community is now and talking about whether it is more functional medicine or it is more spirituality.

Maybe you address that in that show, but that wasn’t the focus for you at the time, and now you’ve shifted, speaking to whatever you feel your audience needs at this time, and making sure that those titles grab people I think is a huge deal, and then putting shows in your LinkedIn bio, that’s something that really helped Connor and I, is putting some of our top shows in the LinkedIn bio, and tons of people started clicking on those, and that gave them one; a step into what our show was, but they were starting from a place where we knew this show was something that was really interesting to people, that had done really well. That was the door. They walked in the door. They listened to that show, and then they were more excited to listen to other shows that we offered.

So those are three simple things that you can do to implement, that will really change your analytics and get people coming back and subscribing. Anything else you guys want to share about marketing or selling at this time before we go?

Christina Rice: A lot of people might be feeling scared or guilty about selling something right now, and I would just like to reframe that for you, because I think it’s more important than ever before to be selling and marketing it. If you’re purpose driven, what you’re offering, it serves people in some way. Everybody has different needs at this moment honestly, so how can you offer that to your audience in a way where they understand, I actually need this more than ever before. On a hard level, people need you, people need each other, people need connection, people need support.

Sometimes that’s in the form of coaching, services, products. These all help us enhance our lives, so it’s just more important than ever before that we do this on an energetic level, but also in terms of the economy, this is going to be an issue. So if we stop selling, we’re just screwing the economy over even more. So we just really need to pour everything. We can into our businesses right now, to be quite honest. So I just encourage people to take a moment to reflect on, am I afraid of selling? Do I feel guilty marketing and actually why? Right now, it’s more important to do that than ever before.

You do not need to feel guilty about it, or don’t second guess it, don’t question it. People need what you have to offer. It’s just a matter of reframing for the audience, so they understand why it’s important because most people don’t even know what they need, until they hear it in the right way. So maybe you could be that person for them.

Kelli Tennant: So great. Sarah?

Sarah Small: I think just a reminder that however people are feeling is okay right now. It is okay whatever you’re feeling and not to judge yourself. To speak a little bit to Christina’s point, if you’re feeling guilt, don’t judge yourself for that. Just be easy on yourself. Whatever you’re feeling, is okay. We’ve given a lot of really great actionable tips and pieces of advice in this conversation.

My last piece of advice is before you dive into making the decisions and going and taking action is also to just pause and down regulate your nervous system, and try to get out of that survival state and stress state before you do take action on these because I have been using this personal mantra lately, that I’ve been trying to preach to the world, which is just that every individual that down regulates their nervous system is helping heal the collective conscious right now. So I think that’s something we can all be doing.

Kelli Tennant: So good. Did you have one other thing?

Christina Rice: Yeah. I think that right now, the universe is basically forcing us to slow down, that’s what it wants. So I really encourage people to just embrace it instead of trying to fight it and resist it. Even though we’re talking about ways to market and sell, and I fully believe in that, but it’s about how can I do that in a more conscious way.

To Sarah’s point, like slowing down for us, and being very intentional about how we’re continuing to move forward, and you have that open space.  So just lean into it, lean into it, instead of resisting and trying to figure out, how can I adjust things to keep my structure of go-go-go, now is a really great time to shift our habits a little bit and try out new routines and slow down, so that we can just move forward in a more conscious way.

Kelli Tennant: More intentional, more conscious, slow it down. Everyone take a breath. We’re going to get through this together. I appreciate you, Sarah and Christina so much. Thank you for all that incredible advice and wisdom. I just respect you guys a lot in what you’re doing. You are definitely paving the way when it comes to marketing and strategy and just allowing for abundance in our lives. So thank you for being such a beautiful example.

Sarah Small: It’s been so much fun. Thanks, Kelly and Christina.

Christina Rice: Thank you both. You guys are amazing.

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The Empath Entrepreneur Academy is a blend of both the feminine and the masculine. The feminine is the feminine leadership infused with the energetic teachings to help you align your vibration and be magnetic to your ideal clients. The masculine is that structure that gives you the simple how to use, that saves you a shit ton of time, gives you the strategy and all the behind the scenes of my business.

The Academy has five amazing components. The first is a 30-day course with 35 video lessons called Launch your wellness biz. The second is How to create a thriving podcast. The third is Human design for entrepreneurs, specifically, for your energetic type. The fourth is a whole Library of Instagram story and content prompts, that are going to help you create your loyal following and convert your epic content into sales, so you can actually monetize and make this not just a hobby and something you’re passionate about, but something that supports your abundant lifestyle.

The fifth is Three group coaching calls that are like a mastermind, where we’re coming together, you’re going to get some hot seat coaching, and be able to tap into my entire box of tools that have helped me to grow my business to where it is today. I’d be so honored to have you inside of this container. The cart is only open for about 10 days, it closes on April 17th, 2020. So if this is calling your name, there are very flexible payment plan options, and the invitation is there for you. Hope to see you inside.

Follow Kelli + Christina:

IG: @christinaricewellness ; @kellimtennant

Podcasts: Wellness Realness ; The Kelli Show

Connect with Sarah:

Instagram | Facebook Community | Pinterest | YouTube

Work with Sarah:

Online courses | 1:1 coaching | Send show requests to sarah@theuncensoredempath.com!

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