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In this episode, we discuss:

• Giving and receiving: how to have a healthy emotional bank account
• Letting go of people-pleasing tendencies and perceived control
• How to navigate when you’re triggered
• Codependency as an addiction and finding healthy coping mechanisms
• The relationship between the codependent empath and the narcissist

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Episode Transcript:

Welcome to the Uncensored Empath, a place for us to discuss highly sensitive energy illness, healing, and transformation. My name is Sarah Small, and I’m a life and success coach for empaths who want to create a thriving body, business, and life. Think of this podcast as your no-BS guide to navigating life health and entrepreneurship. You’ll get straight to the point, totally holistic tips from me, in real-time. As I navigate this healing, and growth journey right beside you, This is a Soul Fire Production.

Today’s guest is Tiffany Louise. She is a professional coach specializing in cognitive and behavioral change. It was such a pleasure to have Tiffany on for this conversation today. We really talked about a lot of things, including moving through fear, releasing control, the shadows that are surfacing relationships, how to have a healthy, emotional bank account, navigating triggers, and of course, narcissism and empaths. So, I know you guys are going to love today’s episode. Let’s dive right in.

Sarah: Tiffany, welcome to the show, I’m so excited to have you on today.

Tiffany: Thank you for having me. I’m happy to meet you. Happy to be here.

Giving and receiving: how to have a healthy emotional bank account

Sarah: So, I was just telling you that when I first connected to you on Instagram, and then, Kelly made the introduction so we could meet here on this call. That, when I first saw your content, I just really resonated with a lot of what you have to say. And there was a post that stood out to me and it said, “you can’t have healthy emotional bank accounts with people who make more withdrawals than deposits.” And to me, this really embodies the energy of the empath, and managing energy, managing the give and the take, the withdrawal, and the deposit. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Tiffany: Yeah, for sure. And as someone who identifies as an empath, as a highly sensitive person, and who has worked to heal the co-dependency that can be attached to that. That way, being in the world, I learned how important having somebody who invested equitably in a relationship. It doesn’t have to be equal, but it has to be this water wheel of you’re pouring in, and I am pouring in. And, I existed in relationships for many years, where I was the main investor. I was making the deposits into the bank account. And, I was operating under the expectation that people will beat me. If I show up that, then it will be reciprocated. And, I’ve learned that’s not the case. If you give in excess, all that will happen is people will learn to anticipate that from you. It doesn’t equal reciprocity.

So, many of the clients that I work with are coming to me where they’ve been investing and investing for years, and they’re not getting the ROI. To continue on that bank account analogy. And, they are almost sitting there shaking the other person, wake up and give back to me, instead of accepting. And so, I believe that this slower we are at the beginning of our relationship, the more that we can see over time, someone’s natural method of give and take. And then, we get to decide if that works for us. Because for those of us who are identifying as empaths, as highly sensitive people, I believe that we have to be super cautious about who we have in our inner circle. Because it’s so easy for us to over-invest, that we really have to make sure that we were drawing in people who inherently like it.

Sarah: It seems like there are especially, so many women who… I guess my question is, where did we learn this? But it seems so many of us are born with, or have been programmed to, or conditioned to nurture and give, and give, and give. And I can, going back to my very first relationship, which was a six-year relationship from eighth grade to my sophomore year of college, and I spoiled the shit out of this man. In many ways, mothered him. And he’s actually, still a friend today. I still love him. But that relationship wasn’t the most balanced dynamics, or like you were saying, equitable to where do we get this programming? To feel like we have to give, give, give before we receive. Or give more than we receive.

Tiffany: Yeah. It’s a great question. And I think, nature/nurture, 50/50-ish is what they sort of generally say. But I have been really researching this a lot more in creating a relationship course. And, where does it become pathological? Where does it become that we’ve learned it, and it’s problematic, and it’s from a family system? And where is it biological? If we think about the difference between a male brain and a female brain is, you see this with a lot of women/ testosterone and estrogen, they’re two very different experiences. And I think for women, the research that I do, on the ways in which historically, we’ve had to protect and provide for. And our safety and our okay-ness were in our ability to be pleasing. If I am pleasing to you, you will take care of me. If I’m pleasing in the community, I will have protection, and connection that keeps me safe. That I will gather with, that I will rear children with.

We are not isolated people in terms of our survival. We need one another. And so, it makes a lot of sense that some of these tendencies to, now that we look at it in this light of over-functioning. Because, we’re not in survival in the ways that we were hundreds, and hundreds of years ago. So, I think it’s a fine line of saying how much of this is? Cause I’ll have clients who, am I ever going to get to the point where I don’t feel tense if someone’s distant? And I’m, I don’t know, might not. That might be somewhere deep in your amygdala. They don’t have a whole lot of research on that area of the brain, or they need more. That’s tuned to your environment because that’s what keeps you safe, and alive. And is going to notice when someone you are connected to, for your survival, in your mind, is off. So, I think it’s a little bit of both. And I think when we accept that, then we can not make ourselves so wrong, around it. We can say, Oh yeah, some of that is my wiring. Some of it is the way that I’ve learned. And then we can not act on instinct, and act on our conscious mind. If that makes sense.

Letting go of people-pleasing tendencies and perceived control

Sarah: Absolutely. And there was a book I read that, it wasn’t a research study on the amygdala specifically, but it was research on connection, and how we thrive in a community. We thrive and feel connected and wanted. We want to be seen, heard, and understood. And the community that they researched, that they had much longer statistically, significant, longer lifespans on average than those of us who aren’t part of a community, and aren’t connected. And so, I think there is a little bit of it in our wiring, where it’s a basic need that we do want to be liked. However, then there becomes this, I think at some point maybe a tipping point or a threshold, I don’t know, but of falling into more of the toxic patterns of people-pleaser without boundaries. They were the sponge to everything in our life. And, I’m curious if you’ve experienced that people-pleasing within your own life. And then also, how do we start to find the balance between yes, I acknowledge I am a human and I need connection. And part of me does want to be liked, or to give? Because it also feels good to give to the world. But then, when does that become, a toxic pattern that then, it’s sabotaging, betraying yourself, burning you out, et cetera?

Tiffany: Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent, have I lived in people-pleasing, sponge energy, for many, many years. And what helped me shift, was I had to learn the cost of not having those boundaries. Because it was the way I was, it was the way I saw the world. I had to, unfortunately, suffer enough discomfort in my life to say, Hey, if you continue to show up in this way, this is how it might impact your health. This is how it might impact your work. And I don’t believe we all have to hit rock bottom, but leveraging the discomfort of where we are now, and saying, what will happen if I continue on, in this way? And so, over time, I raised my bar for the amount of discomfort that I could tolerate. Because for a lot of us who are empaths and highly sensitive, and maybe on the co-dependant spectrum, we can tolerate a lot of discomforts. We’re resilient, we’re adaptable, but that’s not always to our benefit.

So, I had to learn to have a lower threshold for discomfort, and relationships in my life. And slowly do the very tedious, painful work of setting those boundaries and tolerating the discomfort from the boundaries. And one big thing, I’m a therapist and empath whose job it was to talk about the most difficult things. And people like me, are going to be the best at that because we have empathy. Because we’re not tuning out to someone’s nuances, and someone feels like you’re right there with them. But, what I had to learn, and the blessing of my job and my career path that taught me is that me being present to, and me wearing, and ingesting, and consuming that energy is two different things. And so the way that I stopped my people-pleasing is one, I realized that I believe in everybody, else’s inherent ability to take care of their lives.

And when I was operating in that energy, I was not honoring that. I was saying, I could do it for you, or I can have a solution. Or, if only I just take on everything that you’re doing, it’s going to help you. And it doesn’t. Think about it. Anybody who is in their wisest, healthiest self is not going to want somebody else to step into a place of pain, to serve them. You serve from your own energy. And so, answering both of your questions about, have I been there? Yes. How did I get out? I learned to raise my bar for discomfort. And two, I also learned, I was saying this on another podcast the other day, that my therapist would be, Oh, is Lone Ranger Tiffany coming out? Does she have her mask and her cape? And, is she flying around, she’s trying to help all the people in the random city, she’s stepped into. And, I learned that I can help by believing in someone’s inherent ability to do it for themselves. And, I have a spiritual belief, and I’ve learned, I want people to walk out with a faith in their higher power, and in their own ability, not with me. Because anything that’s outside of ourselves is vulnerable. So, I had to learn to be a respecter of other people. Even when they were doing things that I thought, could improve.

Sarah: Yeah. And that goes a lot into releasing control. And I know I’ve had my own, what has felt like a battle at many times. I have fought it. I have kicked, and screamed, and cried, about it because control felt comforting. And control felt safe. And gosh, it has taken a lot to unweave that stickiness, and how safe and comforting it felt. And to see that it was an illusion and that there’s freedom outside of control. But, it brought up a lot of shadow for me personally. And, I wouldn’t say I’ve completely let go of control of all things in my life. But, I’ve definitely been on the journey. And I have been able to at least, pull apart some of the stickiness. And I find so many people right now, in the context of the world, are being asked to do the same thing. Release fucking control. So, do you have your own journey with that? And how do you guide people through releasing control, and maybe even just seeing control through a different lens?

Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I love that you use the word, ‘illusion’. And I think that is what we are waking up to. Is some of the perceived control that we had. Some of the perceived safety that we had. Because I think we’re meeting the reality of, and I’ve said this a lot, but the fragility of this life, the fragility of our human bodies. And it’s scary for those of us who have done our best to put fingers on everything that we can and control the things we can. And so, control is an illusion other than what you do have control over. Which are very few things, but they are very powerful things. Thank you, God. And that’s what we think, and what we do. And like you said, does it mean that you dismantled all semblance of control in your life? No, because that wouldn’t necessarily lead to a responsible life.

So, we learn to take control of what we can, and we learn to release what we can’t. Take responsibility and release. Take responsibility and release. And I believe, that is how we co-create in this world. I think that, is how we learn to have agency and surrender. And I think that is that paradox that all of life is. And so, I think what’s happening right now, is bringing all of that up. And it’s happening for everyone that I talked to. All of the things that we value are the things that we were using to try to control feelings, or numb out, or get our needs met, are up for grabs now. And, we’re re-negotiating who we are, what we believe, what’s of value to us. And that can feel very scary, and uncertain because control gives us the illusion of certainty.

Sarah: And I think, naturally, when you go through the journey of releasing control, at least in some areas of your life. The parts that are an illusion to begin with. That very naturally, fear then rustles up underneath it. And it goes, okay, so you’re going to get rid of this. Awesome. You’re liberating yourself. Wait, no, there’s fear underneath that. And there’s, I think there’s also, so many things that feed into that emotion of fear, that we see in media, and in our external environment. And so, how do we cultivate this internal safety, or this internal love that combats the fear of either releasing control, and then on top of that, what we’re being fed by the world?

Tiffany: Yeah. I think, if we don’t create our own values, and create our own anchor. The world will come in and give you its values. And it will tell you what you should be tethered to, and what you should value. And so, I believe, and I know everyone who’s on this call. We hear these things about connecting to our truth and taking time to tune in, and being careful of what we consume. But especially, for those of us who are the feelers of the world. I have had to heal and to create the best life. I’ve had to be vigilant at the door of my mind, and at the door of my life. And be constantly assessing whether something serves me. Whether it’s a depleter, or whether it’s a withdrawal or a deposit?

And, ultimately, what this comes down to is, all of us wrestling with what we believe to be true. About this life and what we value, what our faith is, what we believe in love, we believe in community, we believe in good or evil, whatever it might be. And then, we have to do the work of living in alignment with that. Because when we are aware of our values, and we are living in alignment, we are flexing those muscles. Those muscles are stronger. So, when we hear the noise from the world, and the noise from the news. We can say, yeah, that sounds scary, but this is what I believe to be true about life. I’m powerless over a lot, but how I show up, and how I love, and I’m going to do that. And I’m going to be in alignment with that. And that gives us that sense of strength.

A lot of what I say I’m doing is, helping people build emotional resilience. The analogy I use is, say that you’ve been working on your fitness, and you’ve been working on your abs. And then you get onto ice in the wintertime and all of a sudden you slip. Your abs engage, and you balance yourself. We want to have that kind of emotional resilience and muscle, connected to our values, connected to our truth, in our mental and emotional health. So, that when life does get hard, we have the strength to meet it. And I think a lot of us have not maybe, been using, working those muscles. And here we are, faced with something that came out of nowhere, that is rocking our worlds. And we get the opportunity to get down, to basics, to build that muscle, to know what’s true for us. That’s the thing that allows us, I think, to put on our armor of truth, and block out a lot of the noise.

How to navigate when you’re triggered

Sarah: That emotional resilience, and the confidence in the anchors that you’ve laid, or in yourself, your belief system, what you stand for. I think is so helpful, and also, navigating the triggers that come up. And, I see a lot of triggers surfacing, also during this time, especially in relationships. Because you might be spending more time with someone, or noticing something about somebody that, normally you’re not around each other so much. And so, I’d love for you to speak on how we navigate triggers? And what your stance is on when we are triggered in our life?

Tiffany: Yeah. I mean, such a therapy thing to say. The trigger is the opportunity. I have not grown, a super whole lot, from feeling great. I wish that was the case, but I haven’t. My greatest growth has been the pain point, and getting curious about it. So, we get a trigger, we have a story, and the trigger is usually a story. Because we all have the stimulus in the environment. We watch something, we see something, something occurs. And then, even if it’s in the flash of a second, our brain creates a story about. And then, this story is what creates our feeling. And the feeling is what creates our action. And again, you talked about the only things that we have control over, are what we think. And our first thought doesn’t matter.

That’s the one thing that, especially, in all the years I worked with people, helping them heal addictions. They freak out because they thought about using it. So, what? If  every thought that I thought, was valid, I’d be locked up somewhere. Our brain just shuts off information. And we have the opportunity to say, ah, don’t like that thought, I’m going to re-direct it and have a different response. And that is how we meet a trigger, and actually, get data from it and heal. I always think the wave that crashes in on your shore, is the one that you’re meant to meet. And so, yeah, what’s up for me? Get curious. We get curious about people we love. We want to be curious about ourselves. What’s this about? What’s the story that I’m telling? Is that true? Is that kind? Is that necessary? Am I being really honest, this thought? Am I seeing things as they really are, no worse, no better? And how can I reframe it? And, that is hard work. When I was working on healing my anxiety, and co-dependency 10 years ago, this was daily, all day long work. But the great part about doing this work on your triggers is that every little microscopic moment of healing, adds up. And then, you’re building resilience, and you’re building a relationship with yourself, that you’re going to meet your needs. And this is what, everything I have, every good thing in my life is built on.

Sarah: It’s a more empowering way to look at triggers. Cause I think oftentimes, when we are not as conscious of our thought patterns, or trying to wake ourselves up to our habit, and our ways of reacting to things in the world. That sometimes triggers can just spiral us down into shame, embarrassment, anger. This lower vibration. Whereas, I’m on board with what you said around, even though it is a very therapy thing to say, that they are a gift. They’re an opportunity. I had a woman talking about childhood trauma. And she’s, these are treasures for us to be able to use, to grow. And to become more self-actualized, and more self-aware, and to realize what is the deeper thing going on underneath this trigger? Because it’s not usually just about what is on the surface of the trigger. But, underneath, there’s so much information that we can use for deep, deep healing.

Tiffany: Yeah. And to have more joy, every time we meet. That’s part of the spectrum of emotions. We open up our ability to feel more joy, and love, and peace, and contentment, and all the good stuff. And the thing about triggers is, I think what I’ve just seen collectively, is the idea that if I meet this pain, I will crumble. But, what we know to be true is, we crumble, when we don’t meet pain. Meeting the pain, and the research shows, you meet the emotion, and if you really feel it, it takes about 90 seconds to move through. To pass. Anything that’s continual… Now, that’s different than if we are activated by a flashback, or something related to PTSD. But, a raw emotion, when we allow it to pass, and you do the work to ground ourselves, and we watch our thoughts. Because the thoughts can either take what you’re feeling and continue it. Or they can take what you’re feeling and transform it. And so, those thoughts are, and as you said, when we first starting off, my brain was, it was rogue. It would just go off. I hadn’t learned how to harness it. How to say, Ah, we’re not going there. We’re not thinking that thought sweetheart, cause that doesn’t make you feel good. But the more you do it, it’s like they are one pound weights at first. And now, I’m bench pressing a whole lot. And it is a muscle. And then, your brain responds the more that you… And you have trust with yourself.

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Codependency as an addiction and finding healthy coping mechanisms

Sarah:  You’ve mentioned the co-dependency spectrum, and also that you used to work with people with addiction. And I personally see a lot of overlap between, empaths, addiction, and co-dependency. Have you witnessed that in your work?

Tiffany: Yeah. Hands down. That co-dependent narcissist, dynamic, that co-dependent addict. I don’t like to say that word, ‘person with an addiction’ dynamic. I like, ‘person-centered’ language. It’s if we are the person who has learned to be, and it’s normalized for us to be in an excessive caretaking position, we’re going to meet someone in a room full of 10,000 people. Healthy 10,000 people, we’re going to find the one person who we think, we can fix. And we think we can help. And so, I think those trauma bonds, whatever you want to call them, those patterns dovetail until we learn to expect reciprocity, to not make more deposits than someone else’s. And so, these are things, for many people, learned in families. If we have addictive family systems, we learned to take, care, take. We learned that our safety was in our ability to pivot, and read the room. And there’s so much there.

But the beautiful thing is, there’s so much known about these dynamics. There’s so much information. There are so many thought leaders, who help us all learn how to heal these patterns. We don’t have to operate on the operating system. I always say it’s like, iOS 14.0 is available right now. And a lot of us are just operating on 2.5, which we downloaded, once upon a time. And we can just upgrade our operating system.

Sarah: Yeah. And what does the co-dependency spectrum actually look like? Or what are the different little tick points along that spectrum?

The relationship between the codependent empath and the narcissist

Tiffany: Well, the best book that I recommend for people on the subject is, ‘Codependent No More’ by Melody Beattie. And chapter four is a laundry list of behaviors and patterns. It’s a whole chapter. So there’s a ton. But, in a nutshell, I think co-dependency is the attempt to get your needs met, by excessively meeting the needs of someone else, to the point of self-abandonment.

So, if we think about co-dependency as just a different type of addiction. An addiction to the person you’re in a relationship with. An external locus of control, if you’re meeting my needs, I’m okay. If you are happy with me, I’m okay. I’m doing everything in my power. Leaving myself on a consistent basis, abandoning my happiness, abandoning my well-being. What they found in addiction literature is there’s this thing called the Jellinek Curve that describes the sort of progression of the illness. And how people can bottom out, and then come up in recovery. And what they’ve watched with people with co-dependency, they travel the exact same healing journey as someone who’s navigating addiction.

Yeah, any of those clusters, symptoms of leaving yourself, and your own wellbeing, for the needs of others. I think there’s a difference between dependency, interdependency, which is what we talked about in the beginning. Which is what we all need, and want, and it’s connection and community, but it’s not self-abandonment.

Sarah: And the way I see it is, that empaths, because they are such a sponge, or can be such a sponge, the world can really feel overwhelming. And so, to me, it’s natural in some sense, even if it’s not the healthiest route, but it seems like a natural route to wants to either numb out from the world, through things like substance abuse. Or to project out and not have to be in our body, some time. And instead, let me just take care of you, and let me abandon myself because what I’m feeling is super fucking overwhelming. And that actually feels easier, even though it is not maybe the healthiest thing for me, at the end of the day. It might feel like a good coping method, at the moment.

Tiffany: Yeah. And codependency is this funky, we hide under the guise of benevolence too. It’s, Hey, I’ve been such a good person, that I’m doing for you. And yet, it’s an attempt to control. It’s an attempt to manipulate the dynamic to be enough, in order to receive. And getting back to what you said, I really do agree with you. And this is what I would say to those of you who are listening, who find yourself in that dynamic, who find yourself perhaps using behaviors, or chemicals, or whatever it might be to know. And this is what I would say to all of the people that I worked with in addiction for a decade, the need that you’re trying to meet, isn’t wrong.

It’s absolutely normal to want to take a break, and get a reprieve, and it’s necessary. And it’s of utmost importance that you do it to maintain your vitality. But we want to look for coping skills that don’t have additional consequences, that costs. And those are just some of the ever-present, ready-made, society serves it up to on a platter of, here you go, you can just get high, and you can just do this, and you can just do that. But, when you come back from those things, you can often have a consequence. So, if those of you who are listening, are feeling this, find the ways to check out that, when you come back, you have a deposit in your bank. Numb out nature, chill out on Netflix for a couple of hours, get lost in the music, or whatever it is. But the thing that doesn’t cause consequences. And it makes you vulnerable to some of those addictive patterns. For sure.

Sarah: Absolutely. And I do think it also takes, what you were just talking about before, flexing the abs. And building that muscle, to then rewire the brain in a whole new habitual pattern, that allows us to get some deposits in the bank without having to withdraw five, and only get two, at the end of the day. And so, this also makes so much sense naturally, that especially co-dependent empaths, would attract narcissists into their life.

Tiffany: Yeah. It’s like a lint that gets drawn to you and sticks. And, that is why that grounded-ness, that I keep talking about that anchor being dropped. Is really so critical, because all of these behaviors, when we become a sponge, we left ourselves, and we’ve gone into someone else’s reality. When we become co-dependent, we are living in meeting someone else’s needs, who are not meeting their own. And we are expecting our needs to get met. We’ve pulled up our anchor, and our boat is drifting. So for us to heal, for us to build these muscles, we have to learn what it feels to be in us. And that’s obsession gives us distraction. So when we are obsessing about someone else’s feelings, when we are obsessing about the pain of the world, when we are obsessing about our partners, we are leaving ourselves. And the more that we can learn to be at home in here, and meet our own needs, and take a break when we need it, and build emotional muscle, the less we want to leave. And the less we need obsession to distract.

Sarah: I deeply resonate to that. I have a form of OCD, or OCD-like tendencies, where it is a compulsion. It is this obsession, and it’s Dermatillomania, and it’s skin picking. It’s something I’ve shared on social media, and a little bit in the podcast before. But it was, I don’t know why I just started doing that. I couldn’t logically be, this is why I chose to do this. I just needed to numb out, and I’ve started to realize that very much. And I’ve done a lot of hypnosis and major healing on it to, where now, it very rarely happens. However, it still does come up sometimes. And it used to be mortifying. It was so embarrassing that I would even do that, but I was obsessing to distract myself. Because being in my human body was hard. And there was a lot of things I didn’t want to confront, and that it felt easier to escape. And I’ve had to forgive myself for–  Yeah, of course.

Tiffany: Not even forgive, that was just our best effort to meet our needs. We’re trying to do the best thing that we can.

Sarah:  Yeah. And I was just trying to get by, and there was so much going on. And I would get so angry with myself after I did it. Why the hell did you just do that? But I hadn’t really developed the strength, the courage, the awareness to sit in my pain. Because, I was still so afraid of what existed in that container, of being in the pain. And at some point I said, this is clearly not serving me, going back to our emotional bank account. It was taking out way more coins than I was putting in. Then I’d feel like shit afterward. And then, I’d have these marks on my skin that wouldn’t go away in 20 minutes or even a day. And so, I realized that this is not serving me. It’s just taking more than it’s giving me. So maybe, I should just sit in this pain for a little while, and see what energy exchange happens there. Maybe it’s not as bad as I thought, or I’m currently thinking, maybe it’s not as scary. And, it’s still uncomfortable. There’s no way around. It’s not pleasant, but I’ve been leaning into that more and more. And it’s taking practice, but I’ve been leaning in more, and more, and more. Until eventually, I’m more comfortable with myself not being perfect all the time. Or being, quote fine all the time. And instead, I’m giving myself permission that I did not use to give to myself, to just be however I am. And not try to, goes back to control as well, try to control everything I’m feeling. And the way I feel, the way I look, and all this bullshit, it was so exhausting. And instead, just be a human who has all this range of emotions. And at the same time, I haven’t mastered it. I’m still going through it as a human being.

Tiffany: Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, Deepak will say he hasn’t felt anger in 30 years. I don’t know. I mean good for him. But, I’m a therapist and a teacher, and I have hope. I don’t think you master emotions. I don’t think you master coping, I think again, back to this conversation of control. I think you learn to surf the waves of your life, and you learn to give yourself as much grace as you can. And you strengthen the muscles, and that faith, and that resilience. And then, you are armed with tools and supports to meet whatever big wave, whatever calm seas come.

Yeah. And I love that Grace, that you’ve been able to extend yourself. Because I can definitely relate. And I’m sure so many people can resonate with this, but that perfectionism, that shows up in co-dependency and that pleasing, and that can then be translated to our healing. Where we’re, I should have a breakthrough. I should be here by now. I’ve gone to therapy for this long. And then, we’re leaving ourselves too, in that way. And not just being with whatever it is, as imperfect as it is. And I think that it takes a lot of courage. But yeah, I think for most people and believe me, I’ve worked with thousands of people at this point. And do it in a safe way, do it with safe people, do it with the right providers. But, I’ve never had anyone regret doing the work.

Yeah. It’s just as uncomfortable as it can be, as painful as the moment can feel, everyone I’ve worked with, has felt relief in some way, shape, or form on the other side. Not just with me, but they work with healers. And it takes courage.

Sarah: It takes us all a different point to then say, yeah, I want to change this. We hit different, I mean, it doesn’t have to be rock bottom. And again, it’s a really common term we use. But it doesn’t have to be a rock bottom, but we just all hit, may be different levels of discomfort that, make us go, all right, now I want to change. And so, I’m also curious to know from you, Tiffany, how do we start to lay those anchors? That’s a really great analogy that you used. And also, to be more present with ourselves, and through that presence reclaim some of our power. Where would you start? I know it’s multifaceted and different for each person. But do you have any advice?

Tiffany: Yeah. I think you start exactly where you are. So in my coaching, I don’t create, I meet people right where they are and people will come to me and be, I want the plan and the program, and what are we going to attack? And I said, your life is going to serve up. And it always happens. Never fails. Your life will serve up what is present for you? What is the wave crashing on your shore, that is meant for you to meet now? So, all you have to do is scan your day, where do I, where are their pain points? Where’s their discord? Where do I find myself leading myself? Where’s my witching hour? Where I come home, and I’ve had such a long day of being present. And I find myself numbing now, and eating my feelings, or I find Sunday nights are really, really tough for me. Because I’m on social media, comparing my life to other people, or where is the disconnect occurring? And then, meet it, get curious about it. So what am I, what’s the need I’m trying to meet? What am I trying to do here? Okay. If the need is never wrong, and it never is, how is this serving me the way I’m meeting it? Is there a different way that I could scratch that itch, that wouldn’t cause this kind of consequence? So, I really believe it’s simply turning to what is right now. And that your life will give you that information.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Just want to say thank you so much for sharing with us today. And just want to check-in, and tap in, to see if there’s anything else coming to the surface of your heart, or your mind, that you’d like to share with listeners before we start to wrap up?

Tiffany: No, I think just what comes forward is, and as someone who is, I don’t even want to say on the other side. Because again, you’re never on the other side. But who has experienced a certain degree of healing in her own life, is not waiting for now. It’s like my life was occurring all along, and everything was perfect. And we can, no matter how overwhelmed or how masterful you feel, we can always just choose more kindness and more compassion. Even as we’re talking about it. Obviously, the feelings come up. And I think about how I used to feel, compared to how I do now. And all that comes forward is compassion. Compassion for myself, for doing the best that I could, and for having the courage each day to try to do the best that I could to change. So the thing that comes forward for me to share is, I love that we’re all on this call. I love that we’re all on this hurt healing journey together. And just remember compassion, and grace, and kindness, is always, always, always the answer when you’re struggling. The risk, the thing you need is always something kind. It’s never something harsh. So I guess that’s, what’s coming forward for me. Is just reflecting back and feeling a lot of compassion for my younger self.

Sarah: Absolutely. I feel that as well. And I think you also gave us a really good reminder today, that never have people you worked with regretted taking that time to do the work and to do the healing. And there’s so much that we can unlock when we say yes to that opportunity. Say yes, to being held in a container, or even going on our own self-discovery journey. Because there are many ways that we can do this. Many pathways we can take to get there. But I found the same in the people that I’ve worked with, and myself as well. Never do I regret doing that work, and showing up for myself in a really powerful way. So again, thank you so much for being here Tiffany. Where can people learn more about you, and connect with you?

Tiffany: Tiffany.louise on Instagram and tiffanylouise.com. Those are good places, if you want to come and say hi, and connect and to meet you there.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, it was good connecting with you and meeting you today. Again, thank you so much for being on the show.

Tiffany: Thank you for having these beautiful conversations.

You all know that the Uncensored Empath podcast is part of a network, produced by Soul Fire Productions. And this is an amazing group of podcast hosts. And we’re growing, there are more podcast hosts coming into this community. We have masterminds every month and it’s just a supportive, supportive place to be able to learn from each other and to grow. So today, I want to take a hot second to tell you about Christina Rice, and her show, ‘Wellness Realness’. She is also part of the network. And most recently, she’s had guests on it and talked herself about topics like mold and mycotoxin illness, about building confidence, about collagen for healing. And healing from chronic mystery illnesses, through dietary changes, and leaning into spirituality. So, I know that so many of you are so on board with so many of these topics, that I want to make sure you know how to find Christina. Her show, ‘Wellness Realness’, publishes episodes every Monday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts. And it is your go-to show, for a no BS approach to all things wellness related.

Thanks for tuning in today’s episode. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Tiffany. I have something brand new for you. I’ve been listening to so much music lately. And in the bathtub, I turn on my Spotify playlist. And when I’m doing my work, I listen to my Spotify playlist, and then I have dance parties. I listen to just music that moves and soothes my soul. And I was listening to all this music. And I was sharing some songs with you guys on Instagram and social media. And so many of you asked, what are you listening to? And can you make a playlist for us? So I’ve been putting together this Empath Healing playlist, and it is done. It is created. It is free for all of you. All you gotta do is email me, sarah@theuncensoredimpact.com. And I’m super excited to share this Empath Healing playlist with you. All right, I’ll see you in the next episode.

Connect with Tiffany:

www.tiffanylouise.com

Book: This Year I Will…: A 52- Week Guided Journal to Achieve Your Goals

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