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In this episode, we discuss:

• Learning about the different Enneagram types and how to type yourself
• The ways childhood impacts your Enneagram type
• How to use Enneagram for empowered understanding of self and personalized selling style
• Uncovering the impact of Enneagram as a business owner

Additional Resources:

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QUIZ: Empath Archetype Quiz

Discover which of the 5 empath wounds shows up most prevalently for you AND how you can use this awareness to shift your identity.

Episode Transcript:

Welcome to The Uncensored Empath, a place for us to discuss highly sensitives’ energy, illness, healing, and transformation. My name is Sarah Small and I’m a life and success coach for empaths who want to create a thriving body, business, and life. Think of this podcast as your no-BS guide to navigating life, health, and entrepreneurship. You’ll get straight-to-the-point, totally holistic tips from me in real time as I navigate this healing and growth journey right beside you. This is a Soulfire production.

My guest today is Sarah Wallace. She is a life and business coach, helping coaches and consultants understand themselves using insight from the Enneagram to create aligned offers and marketing and sales strategies. This conversation was super fun. We jammed as much as I possibly could get into one episode. The Enneagram like some other types of personality quizzes and systems that exist in the world has so many different layers and so many different nuances, and we can use it in so many different ways. And so, Sarah did a really, really good job at giving us the basics and we start with the foundation of what is Enneagram? What are these nine types? What do they mean? How do you find out what type you are? And then we started to dig in a little bit deeper and talk about how this can impact our businesses and how this can show up in our life through our core fears and our core desires and what kind of business we run, even how our childhood can impact the type that we display. I think you’re going to learn a lot about yourself inside of this episode. So don’t be afraid to grab a pen and paper for this one as you are listening and gaining insight. Without further ado here is Sarah.

Sarah: Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

Sarah W: Hi Sarah. Great name.

Learning about the different Enneagram types and how to type yourself

Sarah: I know. We’re Sarah squared here with you today and we are talking all about the Enneagram. So how would you describe Enneagram for someone who has never heard of it before?

Sarah W: So it gets put in the category of personality tests a lot and just for somebody who has never heard of it, that’s a great place to start. The difference between that and Myers-Briggs or this or some of those is that it’s very fluid and that’s what I love about it. So it’s fluid, meaning you’ll be typed as a certain way in that moment, but that’s not to say you’ll be that exact person forever, which is so true for us humans who are always growing and changing. And then the second thing that makes it, I think, more helpful is it shows you your motives behind the behavior. So you could have 10 people in a room and they’re all doing the exact same thing, but the reason why they’re doing it can be very different. It gives you a specific path for growth and then helps you see your motives and understand the motives of others.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. So cool. So I can’t even remember when I first heard about Enneagram, but I am totally somebody who’s drawn to all those different types of personality tests. And when I found out, as I was just telling you before we pressed record, that I am a Type Three, which is shorthand, the Achiever, it really clicked. It really made a lot of sense for me. And I’m sure people who especially are new to Enneagram are wondering what are these types, how many are there, and what is the summary of them? So how do we discover what type we are? I’d love for you to share what type you are and then also just a little bit of information about each one.

Sarah W: Okay, yes. And that’s a great question. That is probably the number one question is how do I find my type? People don’t love the answer because we want a quick answer normally. And I’m also into human design and I love just being able to put in a few numbers and it’s like, oh my gosh, all this information right away. The Enneagram is very different. So the typing process is what they call it. My mom used to think I was talking about typing on a computer. Your Enneagram typing process is part of the self-growth, the self-discovery process because it’s forcing you to ask yourself questions and reflect on things that maybe you’ve never done before. So yes, there are quizzes out there, there are books. You can work with an Enneagram coach; you can take a class. All of those things are going to give you clues.

Sometimes what a quiz comes back as isn’t necessarily your dominant type, but people take those quizzes for the final word and then they force themselves to fit into that. And then after a while, you’re like this just doesn’t resonate. Just out of curiosity, what was your experience uncovering your Three?

Sarah: So, I had originally taken one of those super short quizzes and I got a Three. And then I actually worked with a hypnotherapist who incorporates a little bit of Enneagram into her style and she had me take, I believe it was from the Enneagram Institute, a hundred or 200-question quiz. So much more comprehensive. And I did end up with the same results, which we weren’t sure if we would or not, but it also came back as a Three. And the disclaimer was, at least from her, that’s what the quiz shows. But it is this to-be-interpreted living, breathing thing that there’s so much more depth to than just the answer of a quiz. And so, once I had that, then we still looked at it from a lot of different angles to see if that really was what resonated. And for me, it absolutely is what resonates. I absolutely fall into this Achiever category for sure.

Sarah W: And that is just part of the process; confirming it and understanding why is this true. That is, again, it just continues that journey. And a lot of times though, people think that they want to be a certain way so they’ll answer those quizzes as the person they want to be.

Sarah: I was actually just at my chiropractor’s office last week with my daughter and I just happened to ask her, we were talking about something, and I was like, what is your Enneagram type? And the same thing came up. She’s like, I wanted to be…I don’t remember what she wanted to be, but I think it was a One and she’s actually an Eight or something like that. And we just had this giggle because of course, there’s who you think you are or who you want to be and then when you take 100, 200-question quiz, maybe something else comes back. And I think it can take a second to maybe integrate that into your awareness if that’s not what you were expecting.

Sarah W: Yes. Yes. And that is one of the biggest pieces of feedback. Because I work with that same test that you were referencing from the Enneagram Institute. I think it’s $12 to take it versus some of the free ones, but it is worth it for that reason. And that’s what people will say. They’re like, wow, I’m really surprised that this is one of my top three. Did not see that coming. So there is a level of self-awareness and an openness that needs to come with that because otherwise, it’s not going to do all that it can do. And then as far as an overview, do you want to get into that really quickly, each type?

Sarah: Yes, I’d love. So there are nine types, right?

Sarah W: There are. There are nine types and ultimately we have all nine inside of us. There are all nine on the bus, I like to use this analogy, but one is driving the bus. And you can switch out drivers sometimes, but there’s one that’s in charge of the bus and it doesn’t change. And so, a question or maybe a misconception is, oh, I used to be a Seven when I was in my 20s but now I’m a One and more structured. And that won’t happen because your motive is the same. And actually, your motive comes from an unconscious childhood message is some of the theory behind it, which we can get into that later. But for the Ones, and this might help some of your listeners too, just start to be part of the clue-finding process. I always say this is kind of like you’re an archeologist, your type is the dinosaur under the dirt, and you’re just chipping away, little by little, uncovering clues.

And so, the Type Ones, they’ve been called, the Perfectionist. I think probably a more accurate term is the Improver and maybe sounds a little less negative because their gift is that they’re always looking for ways to improve themselves, helping others. They actually make great coaches and leaders in really the world around them. And so, the thing that drives them is this need to feel, to be good, to be perfect really, to have integrity. And so, the opposite is true. The thing that they’re running away from is to be bad, corrupt, defective in some way.

Our Twos, which you were talking about, this is what I wanted to be in the beginning, is also called the Helper or the Lover, the Caretaker, and their drive is to be loved and to be wanted. And the worst thing in the world for them is to be unwanted, unloved, feeling replaceable.

Type Three is what you are, is called the Achiever also the Role Model. Threes and Eights and sometimes Sevens are in what they call an Assertive Stance category. There’s different groups that the Enneagram has. But not to over-complicate it, but a lot of times you’ll see entrepreneurs and leaders as Three, Eight, sometimes Seven because they have this very natural assertiveness, natural leadership skills. All of us, as you know, I mean your listeners know, can be leaders. It’s just that tends to be the stereotypical leader. So you’re in that category. And the drive for our Threes is to be successful, is to have achievement and really the want behind that is to feel worthy. And so, the opposite of that; for them, the worst thing in the world is failure because they don’t want to feel that unworthiness. Did that ring true for you? Was that…?

Sarah: Absolutely. Yes. It’s just like this constant need to have an impact and be seen in some ways. And so, whenever there’s kind of, which is natural as an entrepreneur, these highs and lows, and sometimes there’s a little lull and I even noticed it postpartum after having my daughter, I wasn’t being seen and I wasn’t feeling like I had the same type of impact because I was obviously still having impact on my daughter, but not so much in this empath community. And it was hard. It was just so hard for me to go through some of those lulls and with this drive to always be making a difference.

Sarah W: You know, I just did an interview with another Three and she’s getting ready to have a baby. And she said the exact same thing, Sarah. She was like, I’ve been having a lot of identity crisis because I’m going to take time off.

Sarah: Oh my gosh. I did a whole post series on Instagram about my identity crisis in the weeks leading up to actually giving birth because it was so real and just present for me where it was feeling like you were going to lose part of your identity, but then regain a new part. But you’re not sure what that part is going to be yet and so there’s unknown in it. And then that’s kind of just unsettling, right? Because we want to have control. And yes, I’ve been definitely riding some of those waves as a new mama.

Sarah W: Yes. It’s like, who am I without this title, without this pay, without this, you know, material things? And so, yes. I mean and that’s something, again, we have all nine numbers inside of us so there might be some characteristics of all of these numbers that feel relevant, but there’s going to be one that drives everything. So for the Three, that’s what that is. You’re either running towards something, that pleasure, or you’re running away from pain.

The Type Four is called the Individualist or the Romantic or the Artist. And these, I will say each type, also has a center of intelligence where they tend to naturally make decisions from, and Twos, Threes, and Fours are in the heart center where they feel first versus with their gut or their head. And the Fours, the reason why I bring that up, is because the Fours are the Feelers of the Enneagram. Their superpower is to be able to sit with people in pain and hard feelings and not try and solve it. Every other type wants to try and solve it, make it go away, but they are very okay in sitting in that discomfort with somebody. So they make excellent friends, also coaches, leaders, because they’re able to sit there with their team. The thing that drives a Four, kind of very interesting, is because they have this need to be, this motive to be unique and stand out and be extraordinary. At the same time, they want to belong is really what they want. So their core fear is being ordinary, being mundane, and not being accepted for their authentic self. Fours, like so many of us, have this drive to find out who they really are and then to be accepted for who they really are.

Sarah: I’ve never actually asked myself this question, but I’m curious what your take might be on it. We look at the definition of an empath being somebody who can absorb, pick up on and feel other people’s feelings or physical sensations as if they were their own. And obviously, we can be all different types of Enneagram and also be an empath. But the way you just described a Type Four makes me feel like a lot of empaths may also be Type Fours because of that that you said, like the Feelers.

Sarah W: Yes. So I would say Fours and potentially Twos as well and here’s why. Fours are, not to say this in a negative way, but they are very focused on their own feelings, very in touch with their own feelings. Whereas Twos, also being in that heart center, they experience feelings, though, outwardly. So they also experience feelings, but their focus tends to be on others’ feelings and they actually lose themselves sometimes. They’re not sure about their own wants or feelings because they’re so focused on others and their superpower is that ability to be really empathetic, kind of like intuitive; intuitive of other people’s needs, which is why they’re the Helpers, because they know what people need. But yes, that’s a great point.

Sarah: Right. They’re great picking up on that. Yes, my curiosity was sparked. As you were speaking, I’m like, oh, I wonder if there’s any sort of common themes. I’ll have to pull my community at some point and ask them. They’re all empaths so then, what’s the most common Enneagram type within at least this community? Awesome. Okay, so we just did Four. Five’s next.

Sarah W: Okay, we did Four. Okay, so Fives are called the Investigator. They’re going to be a little bit more introverted. Mostly the Innovator, the Expert is also what they’ve been called and their core driver in life is to be competent and capable and self-sufficient. And so, the worst thing in the world is to have to rely on somebody else. So they are running away from feelings of not being capable of being dependent on anybody else. And this type is interesting. Well, Fours and sometimes Nines too, they will go within, kind of like a Four, where they’re in touch with their feelings, but Fives are in touch with their thoughts. They will get lost. And Fives start the head center, the thinking center. So, more so than feeling or a gut reaction, they’re going to think about something. You know, how is this going to go, analyze, plan.

Type Sixes, also in the head center, well, it’s natural for them to think first. And their core fear is really fear itself. They say, I don’t know who ‘they’ is and I don’t know how they got this data, but I hear this over and over that Sixes are the most common type of the Enneagram and Fours are actually the least common, which Fours would love, being that they want to be original. Yes, so, you know, who knows that that’s actually true. But I do have a lot of Sixes in my life that I love and they tend to fear fear itself. So we all have a core fear. There’s this fear of being without safety and security and so their core driver in life is to surround themselves, to put themselves in situations where they have a support system, they have guidance, they have that security.

Sarah: I think I missed the summary of the Six, the shorthand.

Sarah W: They’re called the Loyalist.

Sarah: The Loyalist.

Sarah W: They make such loyal friends. Once they are committed, they are committed. Would be excellent leaders, committed to a team, individual, or a cause, and they’re very good at planning. Ironically, as much as Sixes worry, when a crisis happens, they tend to actually be the calmness because they’ve already thought about everything that could go wrong so they’re just implementing their plan.

So Type Seven is the Enthusiast, maybe also called the Energizer or the Wanderer. That is my dominant type that I most identify with and it is so true. The core driver for a Seven is this need to feel free. They’re looking for satisfaction, contentment, being fulfilled in life. And so, the worst thing in the world for them, the thing that they’re running away from is being trapped in emotional pain, having options cut off; a little bit like before, being mundane, having the same thing. And each one of these has its benefits and then it’s shadow side to those needs.

And then our Type Eights are called the Challenger, the Protector. And their core driver in life is to be in control. And the reason why they want to be in control is to be able to protect themselves and those around them. So they are most fearful of being a victim of some injustice or those around them being some sort of victim, of having someone take control of them, of being weak. And so, this type gets dubbed a lot for being angry and really they describe themselves as just passionate. And I forgot to mention, Sevens are the last number in the head triad and then Eights start moving into the body. So they’re going to feel, they’re going to have a strong gut instinct. When you ask an Eight why they did something, they’re going to say, I don’t know. I just know it was the right thing. And then Type Eight is called the Peacemaker. This type is just what they sound like, running towards being motivated by harmony and by inner peace too. And so, the worst thing in the world for them is to be in conflict. And ultimately, the reason why they don’t want to be in conflict is because they too want to belong. They don’t want to be cut off from the group and so they will comply, they will merge into somebody else or with somebody else just to get along.

And so, Nines are another type that tend to lose themselves over time and become really unclear what they want and they take a long time to process. And so, just a quick example; knowing this, whether it’s a client that you’re working with or your partner or your best friend, if you happen to be an Assertive, and then you have somebody who’s a Nine, it takes a little bit longer to process, like days, and you process in the moment, you can see the conflict. But when you understand, oh my gosh, they’re a really fast processor and they’re a really slow processor, I’m going to give them that space. So these are just little things that the Enneagram can tell you about yourself and others. And that’s not to say you forever will be that way. There’s different paths for growth. So was that an okay…?

Sarah: No, I love it. I think that everyone’s going to be able to have listened and take notes on which one, at least from those brief summaries, is starting to resonate. Like you said, how you discover your type is a little bit more nuanced and it can be really an in-depth study, but I hope everyone was able to kind of listen and see what’s resonating for now. And at the end with the Type Nine there, I never thought about it this way, but my dad takes a really long time to process. And so, oh my gosh, I remember being a teenager and asking him if I could go to the mall with my friends and he just didn’t have an answer. It wasn’t no, but it wasn’t yes. And he would just think about it and think about it. Should I let her go to the mall? Is she going to be safe at the mall? Is everything going to be okay? Do I trust her at the mall? Oh my gosh. And so, myself being more of the Assertive, I’m like, what is taking so long? Just give me an answer.

And he’s that same way today where it’s just my husband and I will call and we’ll tell him something we’re thinking about doing and he’s just quiet on the other end. And I’m like, tell me what you’re thinking, tell me what you’re thinking. But I’ve learned that, I don’t know if he’s a Nine or not, I just see that behavior in him, but that when I give him time to actually process, it makes for our relationship to be much more peaceful and to be able to understand each other better, even though I like to have an answer like yesterday and he likes to take his time. You were also talking about, I think I really noticed it when you were on the Five and Six types and I can really see how our childhood potentially impacts the type that we then take on. So I think there’s probably a question from listeners like, are we born with this or is it something that we grow into and develop these patterns and these fears and motivations and so on and so forth? So I’d love your take on if or how childhood does impact some of these types.

The ways childhood impacts your Enneagram type

Sarah W: Enneagram theory says that we start to develop these personalities, these egos starting from childhood. Each type has a specific childhood message that unconsciously they received. Even if you had the best childhood in the entire world, you’re going to pick something up, right? We all need therapy or, you know? Our parents did the best that they could, but there’s always something that we interpreted in a certain way. And so, each type has this message, and then that message they’ve internalized, and then that’s the driver, and then there’s common behaviors that come from those motives. And so, a part of the work is to realize what that message is, that unconscious message that you picked up is, and start to grow through that, heal that, take care of that, I guess, that inner child. And each type, each inner child needs to hear a certain message to start to be able to release that. So it does stick around.

But I will say parents always want to type their kids, which I get, and you can see certain behaviors, but again, because you self-identify and it’s based on why you do what you do, your child will only be able to grow up and identify for themselves or your significant other, or, you know? It’s like, oh, I want you to be this, or I think you’re this. But it’s like, oh man, I’ve been so surprised. I’ve called, you know, I’m like, oh, I bet they’re this type and it’s like, oh my gosh, I was so off base but I see it now. So just a little disclaimer about your kids and the Enneagram.

Sarah: Yes. I’m super curious what drew you into Enneagram in the first place and how we also use this information to empower us without using it as too much of a label or boxing ourselves into one certain thing?

How to use Enneagram for empowered understanding of self and personalized selling style

Sarah W: Mm, I love that question. Well, for me specifically, I’ve done a lot, and I still do it; marketing, consulting, done-for-you type of projects. And I had been working with clients coaching, also one-on-one, and we would get to talking about creating their content strategy. And sometimes we would even create a whole 30 days’ worth of content and video ideas and we’d get to a point and they went and post it, or they’d post it and take it down, or they wouldn’t ever do what we talked about. You know, they said that they wanted to do a certain thing and then we’d come back and week after week and we were still on step one. And two things were happening. (1) I was finding myself saying, this is the best way to do this. Just do it this way. It’s worked for me, it’s worked for somebody else, it’s going to work for you. And then obviously they had all the tools on their tool belt that they needed, but something still was holding them back.

And so, I thought, okay, yes, strategy and tactics have a place. Those tangible tips have a place, I’m not ready to throw those out completely. But there’s something else going on. And so, I had been using the Enneagram personally for a long time and it had just shed so much light and it helped me grow as a person. And I thought, how beneficial would this be to helping people (a) identify where they even want to go? Because maybe they’re not even sure where they want to go. They’ve just heard that from some other marketing person, this is what they should want or what I’m saying they should want, right? And then, getting clear on what they want and then how they actually want to live and achieve that goal. Because if they don’t want to be doing Instagram Lives and that might work, but it may not be best for your personality. And these are shallow examples just in a business context, but they’re true because it’s how much shame and guilt people have because a strategy that they learned from somebody else isn’t working for them. And so, this kind of allows you to be like, okay, I don’t want to do that and it’s because it doesn’t work for me.

With the human design, I’m a Manifesting Generator and I have a lot of ideas and I’ve got a lot of things going on, so it’s like, oh my God, this is okay. I don’t have to… There’s that book ‘The One Thing‘ and I’m just like, tried my whole career to just do the one thing. And then I’m like, I’m getting—

Sarah: And you’re just not meant for one thing. Yes.

Sarah W: That’s why I’m like, I’m going to give that book away. So it’s helping them understand themselves and I can just be the guide, I can just show them the door, but ultimately they decide how and when they want to go through the door. And then also for me, it has helped me have more empathy and understanding that, again, Three, Seven, Eights in that Assertive Stance are future-focused. There’s others that are more present-focused and others that are more past-focused. And when I’m working with somebody and they just want to keep thinking about what they did last year that did or did not work and I’m like, no, no, no, we got to focus on the future, what’s next, understanding, okay, we’re seeing the world a little bit differently right now. I got my glasses on, they got a different prescription on, let me see if I can pick up their glasses and just see how they’re seeing. So as a coach, a business owner working with others, it’s helped tremendously in that way as well.

Sarah: Yes. Okay, so I’d love to break that down into at least a specific example. Maybe we can use my Type Three. And so, I’m a Three, how do I potentially use the information that comes along with knowing that to either figure out what type of business is in alignment for me, or how to market myself?

Sarah W: Mmm. Okay, so as a Three, Threes are 100% okay with, like I said, being in charge, being a leader, sharing their opinion. Image is important. Not just their physical image, but also, how your designs look and how your website looks, that whole image. So it’s going to make sense for somebody like you to put yourself in positions where you are more visible, where you can make things look great. Another superpower of a Three or the superpower of the Three is this ability to read a room and then to pick up on who’s in the room, what’s going on, kind of like an empath, and adjust accordingly. Another name for Threes is called the Chameleon because they’re shape-shifters, whoever they need to be. Politicians would be just a fun general example of a Type Three being whoever they need to be.

That comes with a lot of benefits because then it’s like maybe it would be great for you also to have some sort of community component to your offerings because you are so good at working the room and understanding what people need versus somebody like a Type Five who is very introverted, is not comfortable being in the limelight. And that’s not to say that they shouldn’t, it’s just to start to understand, okay, this is going to take more energy for me to do this so if I really want to align my energy, then what are some things? So maybe it’s like, let me, instead of focusing on Facebook Lives or Instagram Lives, let me really focus on my email list. Let me get that going. Maybe I’ll blog. And understanding that also Fives like to learn a lot. And so, the flip side of that is understanding, okay, when is there enough information and I just need to move forward? It’s identifying your strengths and then also identifying your roadblocks from things that might keep happening to you because of these shadow sides of our types. Does that answer your question?

Uncovering the impact of Enneagram as a business owner

Sarah: Absolutely. I mean, I’m relating to what you were saying about the Three and seeing how it does play into how I show up in life, and in business, and on social media. And you talked about when you were summarizing all nine types, that each type has a core desire and a core fear. And I’m curious how that can even play even more into the type of business that we have, and even just maybe the patterns that we have and how we show up? So I’m thinking about the Three and the fear of, I believe, part of it is not feeling seen or valued, right? And not failure, right? Thinking about the Three and how I show up in business and a pattern, or how that fear can show up in the way I market is I do everything to avoid failure; in the way I launched, in the way I maybe even price or advertise something that I have coming up. And I’m just curious if you have any other examples about how our desires and our fears can really be infused into that.

And so success, again, speaking as a Three, I think about how the Achiever is so based on success. And so, therefore, I have very specific standards for what success is inside of my business and I hold myself to those high standards as the Achiever as well.

Sarah W: Ah, yes. And this is just as important to understand about yourself as your strengths. So your core fear is failure. So knowing that about yourself, the work then, some of that healing is going to be, I don’t know if it’s mantras, I know you have mantras and affirmations, but seeking out resources that start to destroy that thought. And it’s like, no matter how this launch goes, I’m still worthy. I’m a worthy human being. If zero people sign up, I’m still okay. And then also almost like putting on your scientist hat and thinking, I don’t have to do this, I’m just going to experiment. And that way there’s no way to fail. And so, that would be a Three’s healing path is just to be like, yes, let me try this. As a business owner, there’s all kinds of opportunities to try something new, to take a risk, and sometimes that can be scary. And so, it’s allowing yourself to fail.

For a One, their fear is that not being good enough and not being perfect. And so, they will delay and delay. Procrastination, right? And so, the work there is to be like, is it right now what you have? Could it be okay right now to post that blog, to start the podcast? Whatever you have right now, is it ready? And being okay with B-plus work, which is cringe-worthy for anybody who’s listening and doesn’t want to right now. (No, not any of that).

And then for a Two, understanding that this comes up too, especially a lot in the coaching world, where it’s my job to walk them to the door, to carry them through the door, to walk them all around the room.

Sarah: Handholding, mm-hmm.

Sarah W: Yes, yes. Until maybe it’s just the message is I’m here to show you the door. And so, for a Four, and this is going to be really hard if you’re a Four, there’s that quote. If you know it, let me know. I’m going to botch it, but it’s “If it’s been done before, it’s not worth doing” or something about needing it to be extraordinary.

Sarah: The new novel. Mm-hmm.

Sarah W: Yes. Yes. It’s there all the time and I’m blanking. But anyway, and for the Four, with that, it might be that maybe it’s okay to use something that’s already been done before and just add your own twist because we’re sometimes draining ourselves from coming up with the something brand new that nobody’s ever thought of before. And it’s like well—

Sarah: Yes. And so, I’m going to pause you just for a second because we haven’t talked about wings yet. But because I’m a Three, I have like…so it’s the numbers beside you, right? So Two and Four, and I definitely veer more towards the Two than the Four. But as you were just speaking, I’m going, oh, I’m totally a little bit of the Four too, where I often, in order to feel like I am going to succeed and I’m worthy, I need to put on this very unique, extraordinary spin. So it’s kind of the Three and the Four combining together to that expectation I have for myself.

Sarah W: Yes, and you’re absolutely right. Like wings, there’s some Enneagram people out there that don’t think that they’re helpful; others, they swear by them. And so, it’s just if it provides some additional insight. I’m a fan of them, I find them helpful. And they are either number on either side of you and that makes sense. And you can dip into either one. Your wings can change up. And for a Type Five, the thing that they’re going to need to be cautious of as a business owner is similar to that of a One. Not so much as it being perfect or good enough than you being ready and knowing enough. And so, just knowing that, you know, they say you just need to be a step or two ahead of the people that you’re helping. Sometimes we want to be Amy Porterfield-level marketing expertise before we put an offer out, or start our Instagram account, or say that we’re in business. So that’s the thing to be cautious of and to work through.

For a Six, it’s going to be trusting your own judgment, your own opinion, believing in yourself. Sixes, because they want that support and guidance, are constantly looking for outside experts because they don’t trust themselves. They don’t want to be told what to do, but at the same time, they want to be told what to do. And so, the work there as a new business owner, growing business owner is to trust yourself.

For Sevens, it’s actually going to be the opposite of maybe like a One. We actually need to tap into our Oneness and bring in some structure and some routine and just call them something guardrails. Because it is fun to start something new, it is fun to create an exciting launch every two weeks. I mean, I know for myself that’s fun. There’s a meme I saw that was like, ‘Oh, had an idea on Monday, launched it by Friday ‘. It feels like yes, I feel that. But that also can be draining eventually because you’re always creating and you’re never getting better and you’re never scaling.

And then for the Eights, their thing is they never want to let go of control. So as they grow, they grow a team. However, even if it’s one person, being uncomfortable and accepting that nobody’s going to do it the way you do it, but if they could do it 75%, 60%, that could be okay, and start to relinquish some of that control so that you can do other things that only you can do.

And then for the Nine, there’s a couple of things that I could say. I think the one I’ll share here is that your work is going to be understanding who you are and what you want. Nines tend to, like I mentioned earlier, merge, and merge with other people, with ideas. And they wake up one day and it’s like, I don’t even know who I am. I don’t know. And so, I know that you have a lot of resources for this very thing, but start to understand who am I? What do I believe in? What do I don’t like? What do I like? And then build your business, your life in those ways. But you can’t start building it until you sit with who you really are and what you want.

Sarah: Oh my gosh, this is so helpful. And I can also see where, for myself, yes, Three resonates, but I’m also finding pieces in some of the other types that resonate as well. I’m glad you said that in the beginning, where it’s like there’s a fluidity to this where it’s like you can still have different aspects of different types even though you have your dominant type. Are there any last thoughts, anything on your heart you feel would be really helpful for the community today?

Sarah W: I guess I’ll just leave it at this: I always think how much time have we spent learning about other people? Since elementary school, we’ve learned about presidents and activists and artists and authors. And now we have our phones and are learning about celebrities and athletes. And I don’t know how much time, I will only speak for myself but it wasn’t a lot, that I actually spent learning about me. And I think that that is the best time you’ll spend reflecting and asking yourself questions. And whether it’s the Enneagram or human design or it doesn’t matter what it is, just start to get to know yourself and to be real with yourself.

And on the Enneagram specifically, usually, the type you most don’t want to be is the type that you end up being. And so, that helps to kind of keep it real. But once you really get to know yourself, then you can take that same wisdom and empathy and compassion and apply it to the relationships in your life of all kinds. And it’s going to be really hard to have that if you’re not starting with yourself first.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. I love what you just said in that we spend all this time learning about other people and yes, how much time do we spend really getting to know ourselves? And the different pathways and portals in which we can do that are endless, whether it’s meditation, or personality-type tests, or yoga, moving our body. It can be a million different ways. But how much time are we actually giving ourselves to know ourselves on a really core, deep soul level? And that is so beneficial in our emotional intelligence and clarity in our life, and has this giant ripple effect in our relationships like you were talking about. So I just think, yes, there’s so much benefit to it. And if this has sparked the interest of our listeners, then where can people learn more about Enneagram, work with you? What kind of services do you have to offer?

Sarah W: Yes. Okay, so I just started my own podcast, Sarah. Being the Manifesting Generator that I am, this is my second podcast, but it’s called Enneagram MBA. I just launched it actually last week at the time of this recording and it is everything that we’ve talked about. So I’m talking about the Enneagram through the lens of business, kind of living your purpose. And I’m having a great time with it, Sarah. And maybe I’ll have to get with you in the future, but I’m interviewing other business owners too on what it’s like to be their type in business. Because we could talk theory, we can read all the books, but at the end of the day, it’s so interesting and sometimes validating and eye-opening to realize how somebody else is experiencing and expressing their type. So it’s on Spotify, it’s on iTunes and that is the joy and love right now. Loving my business is the podcast.

Sarah: I love it.

Sarah W: Yes, thank you.

Sarah: And so people can go listen.  What is it called, Enneagram MBA?

Sarah W: Yes, Enneagram MBA. And over on Instagram, there’s ways that you can start to…I’m @enneagrammba over there too, start to uncover your type. And if you’re just like, I just want to get to it, I really want to find out, I start everybody with typing sessions. It’s called ‘Know Your Number‘. So we talk about how to find your type and then what to actually do with it. So it’s self-awareness and how to use that in your business and life, ultimately.

Sarah: Awesome. All right. Y’all we will link those things in the show notes so you can follow up with Sarah. And Sarah, thank you so, so, so much for being here. This is so fascinating to me. I love learning more about myself and how this applies to life and a business. And I hope everyone learned a little bit about themselves too. Thank you.

Sarah W: Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. This was fun.

Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of The Uncensored Empath Podcast. I would so appreciate if you could take a couple minutes to rate, review and subscribe. And if you loved this episode, please share it on social media. Tag me, let your friends know about it, and I will see you on the next episode.

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