Listen Here:

In this episode, we discuss:

• Nancy’s experience with boundaries & chasing external validation
• The connection between boundaries and codependency
• Why we need to look at the ways we create chaos in our lives
• The discomfort that comes from withholding boundaries
• The different types of boundaries
• How to effectively communicate your boundaries
• Energetic boundaries as an empath

Additional Resources:

COURSE: The Healing Activation Portal

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BOOK: Setting Boundaries Will Set You Free

In this book, master coach, speaker, and author Nancy Levin will help you establish clear and healthy boundaries. This isn’t easy; many of us don’t want to “rock the boat.” We assume setting boundaries will lead to conflict. And, unfortunately, by avoiding conflict and not setting limits, we tend to choose long-term unhappiness instead of short-term discomfort.

Episode Transcript:

Welcome to the Uncensored Empath, a place for us to discuss highly sensitive energy, illness, healing and transformation. My name is Sarah Small and I’m a life and success coach for empaths, who want to create a thriving body, business and life. Think of this podcast as your no BS guide to navigating life, health and entrepreneurship. You’ll get straight to the point, totally holistic tips from me, in real-time, as I navigate this healing and growth journey right beside you.

This is a Soul Fire production.

Today’s guest is Nancy Levin. She is a master coach and bestselling author of several books including her latest, ‘Setting Boundaries Will Set You Free’. She’s also a formerly, the event director at Hay House for over a decade. In today’s conversation, we are going to talk about, and teach you how to become a ‘boundary badass’ by making yourself a priority, and setting boundaries that actually stick. Nancy helps us to establish clear and healthy boundaries. And, I don’t know about you guys, but that’s not easy for everyone. Many of us feel we’re pushovers, we’re people pleasers. It’s really scary to, quote, “rock the boat” and, we avoid conflict in our life and therefore, we don’t set limits. And can choose long-term unhappiness, or settling, instead of what is typically just short-term discomfort. So Nancy is going to share with us some exercises, and practical tools, that can especially help the conflict-averse and people-pleasing listeners, how to create new habits, and recognize, and take inventory of your boundaries. And maybe, view your boundaries even in a different way.

And I love that we also, dive into energetic boundaries, because I think those are especially applicable to all of you empaths listening. There are so many fascinating pieces of this conversation, because while boundaries may seem simple, there’s actually a lot of nuances and there are even different types of boundaries. And Nancy is just the lady to bring on, to talk all about setting boundaries that will set you free. So, let’s dive into today’s conversation.

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Sarah: All right, welcome to the show. Nancy, I’m so excited to have you on.

Nancy: Thank you for having me. I’m really happy to be here.

Sarah: So I just asked you if you would share the poem, at the beginning of your brand new book, with us. And you graciously said yes. So I’d love to start there. If you can share with us, ‘The Anatomy of a Boundary’.

Nancy: Yes, I’m thrilled to. The Anatomy of a Boundary.

“The boundary is the marker, where I can no longer be myself. No longer congruent with, or authentic to, who I am. When I’m about to lose myself. That’s the boundary point. And yet, time and time again, we miss it. The disconnection from South, but amplifies the way my attention pulls toward you. As if my nervous system is being dragged by a magnet. I have been lost, and we are bound. I need to find the rhythm of who I am, without you, while with you still. The vital recalibration back to me, knowing where I end and you begin. My body and mind rest, restore, and regulate best, when I am alone, and not satisfying someone else’s needs. Slowing down now, I allow myself the rest I’ve been depriving myself of, by over-giving, and being on high alert. Time to liberate me instead of rescuing everyone else. Only I can restore my resources. No longer willing to do whatever it takes, when whatever it takes comes at such a high cost to me. No longer allowing an old commitment to people-pleasing, external validation, and approval, to override my commitment to my own truth and authenticity. The patterns we’re running won’t dissolve by someone else making a change. My boundary is mine to honor. We think our withholds will keep us safe. But revealing is what allows connection and healing.”

Nancy’s experience with boundaries & chasing external validation

Sarah: [deep sigh] I’m just absorbing all of that right now. There were a few lines that have really stuck out to me on a personal level. And it was very visual, in my mind, when you said that the nervous system was like being dragged by a magnet. And I thought, oh, I’ve felt that before. I’ve felt that unease, discomfort. Yet, I very much have played the rescuer, fixer, people pleaser, in my life. And I’d love to hear from you, Nancy, what’s your personal experience then, with boundaries that may have inspired you to start talking about this in more detail?

Nancy: Sure. I, like most of us, didn’t even know that a boundary was something I was allowed to have. And we certainly weren’t taught about boundaries. And we certainly weren’t taught how to set boundaries or how to hold boundaries. And it really wasn’t until I was in the throws of my highly contentious divorce, that I set my very first boundary. And that was 10 years ago. So I lived most of my life, decades of my life boundary-less. And in fact, what happens when we are the people-pleasers, the peacekeepers, the conflict avoiders, the not rock the boaters, the rescuers, the savers, the fixers. What’s really happening is we’re living other referenced lives. So we’re living our life in reference to someone else, and we actually have no reference for locating ourselves in the process. And so we’re seeking the external validation, we’re seeking the applause, we’re seeking the approval, and we are over-giving to such a high degree, that we have lost sight of even how to bring ourselves into the equation.

So this is very much what happened for me in my life. I was completely chasing external validation, chasing all the gold stars at work, especially. And I was at that time, the event director for Hay House Publishing and traveling around the world for a dozen years, producing events with the biggest names in the field of self-empowerment. And I’ve got a lot of accolades. I got a lot of approval, I got a lot of validation. But when we’re chasing the gold stars, no amount of gold stars will ever be enough to fill the void that we’re experiencing within. And really, ultimately, everything that we’re seeking externally, needs to be resolved internally first. And so, I was this powerhouse at work, and at home in my marriage that was abusive, that was rageful. That was a very difficult scenario for me to be in, especially looking at the paradox, essentially of, who I was in the outside world and who I was inside the house.

There was such a contrast. I didn’t even recognize that I could stand up for myself in any way, because I had been pushed down so far, and I had pushed myself down so far. I really sublimated all my wants, and needs, and desires, and served all of my husband’s at the time. And so, in my marriage, I essentially disappeared. And when I did not go back after being kicked out of the house for the fifth time, the house I bought and paid for. When I did not go back the fifth time, that was really the first life-altering boundary that I set, that would change the trajectory of everything that has followed. And so, the important piece here is understanding that, because most of us don’t even know that we’re allowed to have these boundaries. We really take ourselves out of the equation of our lives. And so the invitation here is to really bring ourselves back in.

The connection between boundaries and codependency

Sarah: Yes. In your book, you mentioned that many of us who struggle with setting and maintaining boundaries are also struggling with co-dependence. Can you explain that to us?

Nancy: Absolutely. So first I’d like to define boundaries the way that I talk about and the way that I work with them. So a boundary is a limit, that we set, around what we will or will not do, accept, or tolerate. So our boundaries are ours. There might be some global boundaries, but we all have our own individual boundaries, and what’s okay for me, might not be for you, and vice versa. So our boundaries are ours. And, it’s really at the baseline what’s okay for me and what’s not okay for me.

And what I’ll say here, before I go into the co-dependency piece, is that our boundaries are ours to maintain. So the biggest myth about boundaries, is that someone else is crossing them. I hear from my clients all the time, I set a boundary, but he or she keeps crossing it. And it’s really important from the getgo to recognize if your boundary is being crossed, you’re crossing it or, you’re enabling, or allowing it to be crossed. Because it’s one thing to set the boundary. It’s a whole other ballgame to actually hold it in place. And it’s up to us to hold it in place. So a boundary is really about what’s okay, and not okay for us, and what we’re going to do to honor ourselves in the process. And so the more we can keep it over here on us, the more healthy we are in this conversation about boundaries.

So co-dependency I define as, looking for someone outside of us to regulate us emotionally. So this shows up when we’re in that mind loop of what do I need to do, or say, to make everything be okay? What do I need to do or say to make everything be okay? This is when we walk on eggshells. This is when we take someone else’s temperature before our own. More often I say we want to check someone else’s weather before we know our own weather. And then, this is when we mood match. We see someone else’s mood and we think we have to match them in that mood. That it’s not okay to feel happy if someone else is feeling sad. And all of this is the way co-dependency comes out. And so, what happens here is, another piece of the definition of boundaries is really the delineation between where I end and you begin. So when we’re co-dependent, we’re actually crossing the border into someone else’s territory. And we’re trying to manage their experience, trying to manage their emotions. And we’re trying to manage ourselves in relation to another person. With this book, ‘Setting Boundaries Will Set You Free’, I’m really sharing the ways that we actually can retract, and pull back, and regain, and reclaim, our own autonomy and sovereignty by locating ourselves first.

Sarah: I’m really glad you brought up that we often cross our own boundaries first as well. And just so that people can see an example, I was noticing, when you’re sharing your own heartfelt story, that you got kicked out of the house five times. After that first time, you came back, so it’s teaching him that you’re going to come back, even if he does that.

Nancy: Of course, that’s right.

Sarah: The second time, Oh, she’ll come back and she does. The third time, she’ll come back. And then the fifth time is, wait, no, I’m standing up for myself and I’m not coming back. And that’s actually enforcing the boundary. Is that right?

Nancy: Yes. And that’s why I’m saying it’s up to us, to enforce the boundary. That it’s up to us to enforce the boundary that we’re setting, by what we will or will not do.

Sarah: Yes. What we tolerate.

Nancy: Right. Because ultimately, most of us have lived our lives, unfortunately, tolerating the intolerable and accepting the unacceptable, and we are trying to keep the status quo. We’re trying to keep the peace. But here’s the thing. Most of us have this idea that the goal of a relationship, any kind of relationship, a partnership, a marriage, a business relationship, your mother, whoever, most of us have this idea that the goal of a relationship is harmony at all costs. And so, we do whatever it takes, to keep the peace, but doing whatever it takes, takes a really high toll on us. And we disappear in the process of doing whatever it takes.

Sarah: I’ve been there and I’ve crossed my own boundaries too many times, especially in romantic relationships. And it often feels like you’re letting yourself be this punching bag of, Oh, well I don’t want to stir the pot. Or like you said, I don’t want to rock the boat, and I don’t want to piss him off. And, some love is better than no love almost.

Nancy: Yes. Yes. And especially for me, the big thing was in my marriage, I really had projected this image of perfection to the world. I had presented us as the perfect couple. And I was really also managing everyone else’s perception of us, really giving them a narrow lens to see us through. And no one knew what was going on behind closed doors. And I didn’t share the truth with a soul. And we were married for 18 years. And so, when all hell broke loose, and really my marriage blew up, there was such a reckoning in me of being able to be with my own truth. And then being able to share the truth. But, the bottom line here is that when we don’t tell the truth to ourselves, the truth is going to come out sideways. It’s going to come out in self-destruction. It’s going to come out in self-sabotage. It’s going to come out in illness. It’s going to come out. And so, we have to also look at the ways that we’re creating chaos in our lives to avoid that truth.

Sarah: Yes, I feel that so deeply. There is, I’m sure you’ve experienced this as well, some discomfort in the setting and not just setting, but maintaining of a boundary. And this is a drastic example, for some reason it’s the one coming to my head right now. But I had a toxic relationship at the end of college, and the guy I was seeing would, whenever I threatened to leave or break up with him, because it was a toxic relationship, he would threaten suicide. And it was this constant, Oh, okay, no, I won’t go. I still love you and I would break. I would let him right back in. And he knew exactly how to get back into my corner. And when I finally broke that relationship off, there was so much fear that he may hurt himself. Or the pain, that I was going to be in, et cetera. And it was so hard to actually maintain that boundary, and it was so uncomfortable. Now, this is over 10 years later, I can go, Oh my God, thank God I did that. But at the time, it was very uncomfortable. Can you talk about the discomfort of actually withholding your boundaries, and standing up for yourself?

Nancy: Yes. And even with your example, the truth of the matter is, that when you share what’s true for you, someone else’s response is not your responsibility. So whether he was suicidal or not, it’s not yours. And this is what I’m talking about when we’re so co-dependent, and we’re so ‘other’ referenced, we don’t see the borderline between us and someone else. And we go right into their territory and think that we have to take 100% responsibility for their experience as well. And here’s the kicker. We think we can.

Sarah: Yes. Oh yes. I was, Oh, I can save you. I’ll save you.

Nancy: I can save you. Yes. I’ve been there. That was what I often say, on the day that I met my now ex-husband, on the day we met, it was as if he said to me, hi, I’m broken. And I said, well great. I’m superwoman. I will fix you.

Sarah: Yes.

Nancy: And, all of our core wounds were a match made in heaven. And that’s what happens. And so we need to be willing to sit with the short-term discomfort so that we don’t need to be with the long-term resentment. And the fear of extracting ourselves from a relationship like that. It was very much like that when I left my marriage. He went crazy, similar things. There was ultimately a restraining order I had to put in place, that I don’t really talk about very often. But, it was extreme. It was an extreme circumstance I was in. And, I knew, that I was the only one who could make the change in my life, that needed to be made. And that’s true for all of us. No one else can make that change for us.

Sarah: And I’m speaking from my lens of the world, but I’m curious if you can relate to this, Nancy, in that, when I actually left and enforced my boundary, that was actually the best thing for him too. It was what was best for both of us. It became this co-dependent relationship. And, while I thought I was doing the worst thing in the world to him, and all the pain that I was experiencing in stepping away, and leaving. In retrospect, I look back and we both actually needed this. And I think that’s also what helped me be okay with that decision long-term. I haven’t actually dug into this story in so long, it was like 10 years ago, but it’s coming up so strong right now. And it just feels, ultimately, that was what was best for both parties. Even if in the short-term there was pain on both sides.

Nancy: Yes, I think that it’s tricky when we go into that reasoning. Because it’s still the way that it keeps us rationalizing or justifying, and keeping the other person as a priority.

Sarah: It doesn’t have to be the best thing that’s right for them.

Nancy: Right.

Sarah: It can be, it can end up being the choice that is best for both of you. But, when you enforce your boundary, it only needs to be what’s best for you.

Nancy: That’s right. It only needs to be what’s best for you, regardless of what’s best for the other person. But what I will say, that when you’re in your truth, your relationships become more true. So, you also want to look at the ways that, perhaps up until now, the ways in which you’ve been packaging yourself to be digestible to someone else. Or really also taking inventory of what does it take for me to stay in this relationship? What am I actually having to do, in order to stay? And then looking at that, recognizing that if I do what’s right for me, it is ultimately best for everyone, because I’m showing up true.

The discomfort that comes from withholding boundaries

Sarah: Yes. Yes. And that’s where I was getting is, because I enforce a boundary and did what was best for me. It didn’t feed into me being that people pleaser, showing up in a way that was enabling, etc. And then that–

Nancy:  No, it’s a radical step. It’s a radical step. And then, it’s, if you can do that, what else can you do? What can we do next?

Sarah: It does help build that confidence of, Oh, I can say no and I’m not a bitch for saying no. And I’m allowed to say no as much as I want, in my life.

Nancy: Yes. And this is a huge piece that I work with people around, this whole saying no concept. Because we’re so programmed to say yes, that it’s a knee jerk response when a direct request comes in. We just go right into the yes. And so, I often tell my clients, if you can say no, right away, say no. If you can’t say no right away, you need to tell the other person you’ll get back to them tomorrow. Because we need to build in the space to actually find out if it’s an authentic yes. And if the yes is coming from obligation, or responsibility, or fear of someone else being disappointed or angry. Or we want to show up as the hero, and the fixer, and the saver, all of those, are no. So yes is really only about desire. And the other thing about the ‘no’ is, really understanding that we can say no with grace and gratitude. We don’t need to say it with guilt, and excuses, and apologies, because usually we lead with, I’m so sorry. But we can simply say, thanks for thinking of me, I’m not available. We can just go in with the gratitude, instead of the apology, and instead of making up a whole story, and a song, and a dance. Which is what most people do too.

Sarah: Right. Yes. All the reasons why they can’t, and they’re so sorry. And the example you just said, thanks for thinking of me, but I can’t this time, or whatever. There is a whole different energy to that. It has a whole different frequency when that is your response back. That, I think both parties can feel really good about. Again, it’s really about how you feel, but it’s honest, and it allows you to say no. And, what’s the saying? It’s that no is a complete sentence. And you don’t have to always be explaining yourself, and creating this whole story around all the reasons why you can’t. And instead, just no. Or this isn’t aligning for me.

Nancy: I had a coaching call yesterday with a client, about canceling a trip, and, given the circumstances that we’re in right now, around travel. And she was so worried about what the other person was going to think about the canceling the trip. She was more concerned with the other person than herself, and her own feelings of safety and wellbeing. And so, the real invitation here is threefold. First, are you willing to consider yourself and your needs, at least as much as you’ve been considering everyone else? At least as much. Then it’s, are you willing to consider yourself more than you’re considering everyone else? And then really the real sort of boundary ninja move here is, are you willing to consider yourself first, before you consider everyone else? So, check-in here first, instead of taking all the temperature out there. What do I want? What do I need? What do I think? And check in here first.

Sarah: And I think that is something that so many people struggle with. Because something I saw in your book, which is the reason we often don’t set boundaries is in our subconscious mind. And you mentioned before, that often times we do try to package ourselves up into the perfect patch package for other people. And it might even seem, I don’t know any other way. That is just almost who I am yet. Yet, I think what we can uncover is, that’s just a program in the subconscious mind that can be changed. It’s not permanent.

Nancy: Absolutely. And it is based on beliefs, and it’s based on commitments from childhood, about the way the world works and our role within it. And, much of the work I do with my coaching clients is, around reorienting towards self, instead of the outer reference. So really, it’s like, I think of it like a night stadium with those giant lights. And right now, we have those giant lights out on everybody else. And it’s what happens when we turn these lights back on ourselves? Put our attention on ourselves first. Even when it comes to the most basic small things. I mean, one of the exercises I give my clients out of the gate is – one of the most common responses to, Hey, where do you want to go to dinner tonight? I don’t care, where do you want to go?

Sarah: Yes.

Nancy: That’s how 99% of us respond. I don’t care. Where do you want to go? Even start with the response to that being, Huh, let me actually check in with myself and see what I’m in the mood for.

Sarah: Yes.

Nancy: Oh, I want sushi tonight and to name it. Now, we might not go for sushi tonight, because for all I know you’re allergic to fish. But, at least I’ve said what I want. So the resentment rising will be less because the resentment rises when we abandon ourselves.

Sarah: That’s so true. Oh my gosh. Yes.

Nancy: Yes. The more we abandoned ourselves, the resentment rises.

Sarah: Like you said– That knee jerk reaction of, yes, yes, yes. And then you’re like, wait. I said yes. Before I even asked myself, how do I actually feel about this? I don’t want to do that. But now I’ve already said yes because it was such an immediate reaction. And now, I’m likely going to be resentful that I have to go do that.

Nancy: Right. And then we’re all in that position. We’ve all been in the position of saying yes, and then thinking, how the hell am I going to get out of this? Or we see it sitting on our calendar like a lump, and each day that we inch toward it, we’re dreading it. So, how do we actually bring ourselves into the equation and consider our needs, and our wants, and our desires first, so that we make the choices that are in alignment with our truth? Otherwise, here’s the deal. Otherwise, we’re just presenting a persona that isn’t honest. We’re essentially lying. Each time we say yes when we want to say no, it’s a lie.

Sarah: Yes. And it’s almost, maybe this is a harsh way of saying it, but it’s at least, a mini betrayal of yourself.

Nancy: Always. Yes. Anytime that we are dishonest, it’s a betrayal of ourselves, first and foremost, even if someone else is involved.

Sarah: Yes. And that has happened, and it starts to not feel good.

Nancy: It does.

The different types of boundaries

Sarah: You also, Nancy, we talked about what a boundary is. But you also talk about types of boundaries, in the book. For example, I think one of them was an emotional boundary. And I think that would be really good to paint a picture for the listeners to understand. We’ve talked about saying yes or no to commitments. What’s okay with you, what’s not okay with you in a relationship. But what are other types of boundaries that do show up in all of our lives?

Nancy: Yes. So there are physical boundaries, there are emotional boundaries, there are energetic boundaries, there are material boundaries. So physical boundaries are really about, if someone’s coming in for a hug and I’m not comfortable with that. To really be able to let someone know, I’m not a hugger.

Sarah: Yes. I teach yoga. I’ve been teaching yoga for 10 years, just part-time. And it’s something that became apparent to me so quickly. That, you have to respect that physical boundary. And so now, we even have these little cards that people put on their mats that are, yes, please, touch me and help me. Push on my hips when I’m in child’s pose. And other people, for whatever reason, I don’t need to know the reason, do not want to be touched. And it’s so important to me to respect that boundary.

Nancy: Yes. Yes. So that’s a great example of a physical boundary. Right. Don’t come in for an adjustment with me.

Sarah: It’s physical.

Nancy: Now, and then, even mental boundaries, the boundaries around what we are choosing to think. Now, we do have control over our thoughts. And as my dear Louis Hay used to always say, don’t think the thoughts that scare you. We actually can choose what thoughts we want to think. We don’t think we have control, but we do. So we can also create boundaries that way. Spacial boundaries, some people, whether it’s about claustrophobia, or it’s about being an introvert, or whatever we want to say, some people are not comfortable in crowds. Some people aren’t comfortable if people are too close. And to be able to really recognize, I’m actually a person who is not comfortable with this, with not enough distance between me and another person. Things like that. And can also be, material boundaries, even in terms of, I’m clear about not loaning money, or I’m clear about what… again, it’s coming back to the what am I okay with, what am I not okay with, in different categories?

Sarah: And so that reminds me of when I was in college and all my girlfriends and I would share clothes. And is it okay to just go into your friend’s closet or your sister’s closet? Because I have younger sisters as well. And is it okay to borrow clothes from each other? Or do you say, no, you need to ask me first, or only these clothes or that’s a special shirt and you’re not allowed to wear it.

Nancy: And so that’s what comes up in terms of, okay, let’s have a conversation about this. I’m cool with you coming into my closet to borrow clothes. Here are the five items that are off-limits.

How to effectively communicate your boundaries

Sarah: Yes. And then now, that person knows, and it’s much more black and white around what’s okay with you, what’s not okay with you. Versus even the other person having to kind of tiptoe in that gray area, is Sarah going to be okay with this? I don’t know. Because the boundary is not clear.

Nancy: Great. And so when we’ve set boundaries with other people. So first of all, let me say, my boundaries are between me and me, even if they involve you. So I may choose to verbalize, or not verbalize a boundary because ultimately, whether I verbalize it or not, I’m the one who needs to uphold it.

Sarah: Right.

Nancy: So the other piece is that if we choose to verbalize the boundary, we’re giving people pieces of our puzzle. We’re giving them access to our operating manual. And then they can calibrate. One of the reasons I find, that people don’t set boundaries is they don’t know what to say. And so what happens most often is a boundary comes out as, you always, you never, you can’t, why don’t you, I need you to, you have to. So that’s often the way people start throwing a boundary. And I really teach that a boundary is expressed from the ‘I’. So, I feel ‘x’ when you do ‘y’. So in order to take care of myself, I’m going to do ‘z’. I feel uncomfortable when you have more than two drinks when we’re at a party. So tonight when we go out, I’m just letting you know that if you have more than two drinks, for me to take care of myself, I’m going to get my own ride home.

Sarah: Yes. And that’s so different than, you can’t have more than two drinks. And pointing the finger at somebody, as this is how that makes me feel, and this is how I will likely respond to if you do that. Now, you know.

Nancy: Because a boundary is not about someone else needing to change their behavior. A boundary is about me taking care of myself. And here’s the thing though, I can’t verbalize that boundary unless I’m going to go home on my own that night. Because other-wise it’s the little girl who cries wolf. And we are teaching people how to treat us and we’re telling people, I’m not serious. I don’t actually stand by my word. So if we’re going to verbalize a boundary like that, we need to be prepared to put our money where our mouth is. But here’s the thing. This is what moves us out of blaming and victimhood, into responsibility and empowerment. By being able to see that it’s mine.

Sarah: And I’ve, had so many clients come to me, that I’ve worked with one-on-one and said, I know what my boundaries are. I say my boundaries to whoever, their mom, their dad, their partner, but I never actually follow through. And that’s where, to me, it’s not a complete boundary then, if you’re not enforcing it. And so, I don’t know if I have the perfect answer to coach that person through. Boundaries are not my expertise. But I get the question a lot around, Sarah what do I do if I’ve been saying this is not okay with me for so long, but then not actually following up and doing anything about it when that person does it anyways? So it’s almost as if they’d have to come, it’s like a restart, a fresh start and you have got to stop. You have got to start standing up for yourself girl.

Nancy: Right. So this is the whole thing about setting boundaries that stick. And the boundaries are only going to stick if I honor myself. Because what’s happening is, we’re further being co-dependent in expecting someone else to honor us and respect us, when we don’t respect or honor ourselves. So the answer to this question is, what are you willing to do to honor yourself when this behavior happens again? And again, it’s not about the other person’s behavior changing, but what are you willing to do to honor yourself in the process?

Sarah: And it’s never too late to start creating boundaries.

Nancy: No. Never too late. I didn’t start until I was 45. Never too late.

Sarah: So a lot of my listeners also identify as empaths or energetically sensitive, highly sensitive people. And so I think we really need to bring up at least, a little bit, energetic boundaries. Because there’s just something that a lot of people do also come to me and ask about. And they feel like they’re taking on the energy of the world. And almost this like energetic assault on them. And so, I know, because you’ve spent so many years at Hay House, you’re very familiar with the energy and the spiritual realm.

Nancy: I am.

Energetic boundaries as an empath

Sarah: And I’d love to hear your take on boundaries, as an empath as far as the energy goes.

Nancy: Yes. So I’m really glad you asked this because you know, is taking in all of that energy is a way we cross our boundary. It is a way we cross that borderline between me and you. It is a way we go into someone else’s territory. There’s a time and a place, I’ve talked to many of my friends who are mediums and intuitives and many of my friends who are empathic healers. And what really needs to be learned is how to turn it on and turn it off. Not to just leave the faucet running all the time. And to also know about, clearing ourselves and checking in, is this mine or is this yours? Is this mine or am I carrying this over from the last session I did with a client? And getting familiar with the practices that ground you, that clear you, and, so that you can stay present to your own energy, and not be absorbing, and carrying someone else’s.

Sarah: And when people do come to me and they feel assaulted by energy. And there is all these energy vampires in their life, I get that, we don’t learn this in school. No one teaches you how to protect your energy in school. And so, it may not be something that we inherently are born with that skill set, or taught that skill set, but you can learn that skill set. And you can, it may not seem like it in the moment, that you can turn that on and off. Or you are even allowed to not let people’s energy into your space, but you can learn that.

Nancy: Yes, and I will say, so, Christian Northrup, Hay House author, who wrote the book, ‘Dodging Energy Vampires’. Wrote the forward to, ‘Setting Boundaries Will Set You Free’. And she told me when she read the book, she’s like, this really is the prescription for the empaths.

Sarah: Nice.

Nancy: Because the energy vampires, the reason energy vampires, I want to say it the right way, but it’s like the energy vampire and the empath together are what enable each other to stay in their roles.

Sarah: That’s often a co-dependent relationship.

Nancy: That is exactly the co-dependent relationship. So it’s the empath and the narcissist or however you want to name it. But when the empath begins to heal and is no longer available to the energy vampire or narcissist, everything changes. But it is the empath’s work. So this book, is what she literally said, This is the prescription for the empaths who are dealing with energy vampires.

Sarah: I think so many of us need these tools because maybe we haven’t found anywhere else in our life where they’ve been taught or offered. And, a lot of empaths I talk to, feel like they are a magnet to those people in their life. And just don’t have the vocabulary, the tools, understanding of how not to be that magnet.

Nancy: That’s right.

Sarah: And, this is the encouragement to everyone listening that you can absolutely learn these tools. And it’s also, not as complicated as it may seem. Boundaries, there’s a lot of ways to talk about them, and there is nuances of course. But, reading a book like yours, Nancy, and implementing the work is not overly complicated. Anyone can do it.

Nancy: Anyone can do it. And the other thing that I really want to convey is that most of us relate to boundaries as being the way that we’re keeping something out. Or that we’re closing ourselves in. But I also want to say that boundaries are not just sort of restrictive, or constrictive. Boundaries are very expansive. And that, with the boundaries that we’re setting, we are also determining, and carefully choosing, and consciously curating we want to have in our lives. So there’s that expansive aspect of it as well. And the other thing I would say here, is that we really want to check in around being willing, as I was saying before, being willing to really consider ourselves. And something that often comes up here, and I’ll just name it, because it sort of popped in my head when you were talking before, is this whole idea of, well isn’t this selfish?

Sarah: Yes.

Nancy: And I am on my soapbox to reclaim selfishness. Because the way I see it, selfish, self-love, and self-care are three sisters whose job it is to support us in honoring ourselves. And so many of us who identify as empaths, have disowned selfishness to such a degree, that we go all the way to self-less. And in selfless we vanish. So we really need to see that we need to bring ourselves back into the equation.

Sarah: I want everyone to push the 32nd rewind and listen to that again.

Nancy: Yes.

Sarah: That is soo important.

Nancy: It is, because this, this reclaiming selfishness is really about what I was saying before. I’m willing to bring myself in and consider. Because here’s another piece I’ll sort of layout here. We also really need to look at the ways in which we have been validating our own worth and value, by what we do give, and achieve, and produce. So the more we do, the more value we feel we have, the more worthy we feel we have. So we also need to stop attaching our worthiness to someone else’s wagon. All of this is about being able to come back home to ourselves.

Sarah: Yes. And you are inherently worthy. It is your birthright.

Nancy: Yes. Birthright. Yes, absolutely.

Sarah: I think that’s a really, really beautiful place to come to a close, but I do want to open it back up to you, Nancy, to just see if there’s anything else or any takeaways, or reminders, tips, that you’d love to share with the audience today.

Nancy: To me, it always will come down to the foundation of truthtelling and choice. So how true, how truthful am I willing to be with myself? And how in alignment with my truth, am I willing to make my choices be? Because the way I see it is, where I am, where you are, where everyone listening is right now in this moment, it is the culmination of all of our choices, our actions, our decisions we’ve made up until now. And so, if we don’t make a different choice, if we don’t do something different, our future arrives looking very much like our past and our present. So I really look at our present moment choice as our crystal ball. The present moment choice predicts our future. So in every moment we have a choice. And we can make the choices that are in alignment with our truth. And then, that is how courage and confidence gets cultivated.

Sarah: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Nancy: You’re welcome.

Sarah: So your new book is called, ‘Setting Boundaries Will Set You Free’. Where can people find it and connect with you?

Nancy: You can find the book anywhere books are sold. It’s available in hardcover, ebook, and audiobook. And it’s me on the audiobook, and my website is nancylevin.com. And I also have, on my website a free checklist called, ‘Your Boundary Bad-ass Quick Tip Checklist’ and you can get it at nancylevin.com/checklist.

Sarah: Amazing. Yeah, I love in some of your texts there was this term of being a ‘boundary bad-ass’. I hope that everyone is inspired to be just that today, after listening to all the guidance you provided for us. And go out and be a boundary badass in all of your lives. And Nancy, thank you again so much for being on the show.

Nancy: Thank you.

As always, thank you so much for tuning in, and just so loving reminder to take a pause today. To feel into your body and skin what energy you’re taking on, what’s yours, what’s not yours to be carrying during this time. And to get really clear on the boundaries that you want to create for your life. If there is anything I can do to support you during this time, please don’t hesitate to reach out. You can always find me in my DMs @TheUncensoredEmpath. Or send me a personal email, that’s sarah@theuncensoredempath.com. Hope to talk to you guys soon and see you on the next episode.

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